The California Superbike School has returned to NZ. New website up and running!

[st00ji]

people who want to ride on the road like its a race track will do so regardless of having being to CSS and the like or not.

for my 10c anything that improves your control over a bike (or car) can only be a good thing.

how individuals choose to apply their skills (or lack of) is just that, individual. blaming training course or creators of for the actions and choices of others is moronic.

frankly i'd have thought anyone willing to spend the money to improve their abilities has already made a start on the right attitude.

edit - would love to get along to one of these things - will have to start saving.

[jellywrestler]

but to present it as some sort of Road Safety Course is, frankly, quite laughable.

I disagree on this Katman. As a young fella my skills on the road increased hugely once I went to the race track. It was there I learn't confidence in pushing it further as there were no hazards from lap to lap like differing road conditions, I learn't to try different things and when they went a little far I had found both skill and confidence to put them right. I'll admit that it mean't i could travel faster on the road but the other skills have helped me immensely over the years to cope with the expected and unexpected.
In my 33 years odd of riding I can think of only one occasion where I crashed cause I was going too fast, and come to think of it that was before my track experience and I came into a corner too hard, target fixated and was fucked, that was back in 1983.

[Katman]

frankly i'd have thought anyone willing to spend the money to improve their abilities has already made a start on the right attitude.

Not if the only ability they plan on improving is getting from A to B faster than the last time.

[BoristheBiter]

I'm sure there's a great many squids who have taken Keith Code's derision of "chicken strips" to heart and consequently come to grief in the effort of getting rid of them.

and i bet there are just as many old farts on cruisers that have failed to go around a corner.

Get off your high-horse Katman, you're not the all knowing god you think you are.
There is a reason you are the most ignored person on this site.

[Katman]

Like I said earlier in the thread, it would interesting to compare the accident statistics of those who have done the CSS course with those who have done the IAM one.

Unfortunately, motorcyclists seem to be more readily seduced by the CSS option - presumably because it has the word Superbike in it and it's held on a racetrack.

[BoristheBiter]

Like I said earlier in the thread, it would interesting to compare the accident statistics of those who have done the CSS course with those who have done the IAM one.

Unfortunately, motorcyclists seem to be more readily seduced by the CSS option - presumably because it has the word Superbike in it and it's held on a racetrack.

I would rather know what type of bikes are crashing as I have seen more crusers down lately then sport bikes. That might account for the next two points.
The 40+ riders make up more than the rest of the age groups put together in death/injury accidents.
Also the 1000cc+ bikes make up more than anything else then scooters and under 250.
And as speed only makes up 19% of stats your assumptions sound a little off. yet again.

And what is this Star Wars?
Maybe riders want to better understand how to ride a bike and the thoughts of a world renowned riding school with certified instructors sounds like a good idea.

[SVboy]

I'm sure there's a great many squids who have taken Keith Code's derision of "chicken strips" to heart and consequently come to grief in the effort of getting rid of them.

Prove it Katman-where is the evidence to back up your statement? Your sure? How are you sure?

[300weatherby]

To claim Keith Code (and by proxy all CSS instructors) has "blood on his hands" is funamentally stupid.

An Ar15 was used to murder a number of children and a couple of teachers in a US school recently, by the above logic, the manufacturor of the ammunitition used in that weapon, is in fact responsible, not the nutter pulling the trigger.

I am a road rider that does Akaroa GP, round the block (both passes) and full on touring.
I am a competent racer, racing in a couple of different catagories on different bike types.
I have availed myself of whatever learning, coaching, information is available to be faster and safer.

By learing correct technique, and the ability to apply correct technique under pressure, I will live longer, riding on the road where shit happens without warning.Just as it does on the track.

CSS is not about teaching you to ride in the real world, or to race- it is about teaching you control, of yourself and your machine, by making you understand what is actually happening, how the bad stuff happens, and how to make good stuff happen. CSS gives you the information to set about developing skills, skills that need worked on and practised untill you no longer ride.

Subjective: most road riders have slow reactions, bad cornering technique and bad decision making. This becomes hugely exagerated under pressure. Most road riders will indignantly beat their collective chests in puritanical outrage at that remark, because it is everbody else, not them......

Being fast in the real world does not mean you have a grasp of anything other than the gas.
Being fast on the track, does not translate into being safer than your average road rider.

Slow reactions- paying attention to your surroundings, riding within your ability, develop the habit of an automatically evolving escape plan and you will ecape the unexpected. If you have to think on a conscious level, it is already too late.....Track days will not improve reaction speed, but racing will.

Bad cornering- being taught by people who actually understand all the dynamics at play, combined with acceptance the real world does not play fair and is actually trying to kill you, will improve your chances, and the fun factor that is a series of twisties.Genuine race lines and road lines are different.

Bad decision making- generally, bad decision making occurs under pressure because it all happens too fast and a degree of "freeze" gets in the way- to create time to make better decisions without having to think, refer to "slow reations", and/or, go racing.

Track days give you the chance to genuinely exploes your bikes potential, but generally only racing will teach you to go fast, interestingly, the guys in the "fast group" at Ruapuna track days will usually race past the race guys in the group to gain.........? not sure who they try to show they are "fast" , girlfriend on the pit wall maybe. The race guys wear a dayglo vest, pointed out at rider briefing, follow for a lap or two and you get an idea of the right way around, when you go flying past the race guy because he is too slow for you, maybe you need to front up on the grid and show the rest of us how to catch Stroud.

CSS was great, I knew less than I thought I did, and I had already been racing for a while.
Mainland course was great, new less than I thought, and I have ridden road forever.

Get knowledge, skills, training from anywhere you can, anytime you can, don't rush off to bag someone elses teaching/coaching unless you are in fact, of a higher standard of knowledge, ablity and qualification that they are - and if you are, wright a book and make the movie, I will come.....

[tigertim20]

Not if the only ability they plan on improving is getting from A to B faster than the last time.

using that logic - that course providers are enabling such riding attitudes, why not go back another step and blame manufacturers for building bikes with the abilities they do? or lobby government to ban bikes altogether?

People who have a tendency to ride like a cock on the road developed that tendency LONG before they heard about CSS or similar programs. If your argument is that there are other types of program that assist riders in a more safety oriented manner ten te problem again is that people who want to like like maniacs arent going to be interested in a 'safety based' program anyway. SO I struggle to see exactly what your point is, or what your problem is with rider training days of any sort? Ive done some and found them brilliant - yup they were at a racetrack, but so what? are you suggesting that instead we get a group of 50 riders and drag them around the streets of south auckland in a group while trying to teach them all these skills, instead of doing it first in an environment where the number of external factors can be controlled to enable people to focus purely on the skill being learnt? - the dollar theory in practice.

[GrayWolf]

You are doing it right now.


Track days do NOT make you reactive. They make you think about what is ahead of you, that's proactive in my book.
Positioning on the track, can be translated straight back to the road (in fact everything can), for set up for the next corner, Sounds like proactive again. looking through the corner at where you want to go, More proactive thinking.
All in the knowledge that nothing is coming at you, has crossed over the center line or going to pull out on you (OK that sometimes happens) Exactly the point I have consistently made, on a track its 'SOMETIMES' and you are all going the same direction, on the road it's (most of the time) and even at legal speeds, the closing speed is up to 200kph when approaching, which would leave you needing a fantastically good reaction ability

Yes defensive driving keeps you alive and out of trouble but that is only part of riding a motorcycle. Absolutely 100% agree with that statement, yet you consistently argue against my posts that Defensive situational driving cannot be properly taught on the track. To practice a skill it MUST be applied, so you need to get on road training to practice those 'advanced defensive' skills. Which your own point of 'SOMETIMES' indicates a low possibility of this practice in a track environment.

See the last one, I am not so stuck to one line of thinking that I can't take ideas from others.
I don't class myself as too big to learn, try it someday and you might be surprised what you can learn. Neither do I, and as stated earlier I will look at the CSS course myself, but for me signing up with Andrew T and getting a likely 'severe ego check' is of far higher importance of the two options.

I am finding that it is the balance of work on the track and the skills that that begins to impart combined with training on the British police riders training system that hopefully is improving my riding by improving my situational awareness and giving me the skills to begin to deal with emergencies if I dont predict or miss them................ Katman is doing his credibility no favours tho it seems GW is starting to open his mind to the possibilities that riding skills can be enhanced in many different environments.

SVboy has it correct Boris,,, and its exactly what I said in my post... track days teach the BIKE handling skills, IAM/Police style training teaches Situational knowledge.... That has been My argument all along.

[SVboy]

To claim Keith Code (and by proxy all CSS instructors) has "blood on his hands" is funamentally stupid.

An Ar15 was used to murder a number of children and a couple of teachers in a US school recently, by the above logic, the manufacturor of the ammunitition used in that weapon, is in fact responsible, not the nutter pulling the trigger.

I am a road rider that does Akaroa GP, round the block (both passes) and full on touring.
I am a competent racer, racing in a couple of different catagories on different bike types.
I have availed myself of whatever learning, coaching, information is available to be faster and safer.

By learing correct technique, and the ability to apply correct technique under pressure, I will live longer, riding on the road where shit happens without warning.Just as it does on the track.

CSS is not about teaching you to ride in the real world, or to race- it is about teaching you control, of yourself and your machine, by making you understand what is actually happening, how the bad stuff happens, and how to make good stuff happen. CSS gives you the information to set about developing skills, skills that need worked on and practised untill you no longer ride.

Subjective: most road riders have slow reactions, bad cornering technique and bad decision making. This becomes hugely exagerated under pressure. Most road riders will indignantly beat their collective chests in puritanical outrage at that remark, because it is everbody else, not them......

Being fast in the real world does not mean you have a grasp of anything other than the gas.
Being fast on the track, does not translate into being safer than your average road rider.

Slow reactions- paying attention to your surroundings, riding within your ability, develop the habit of an automatically evolving escape plan and you will ecape the unexpected. If you have to think on a conscious level, it is already too late.....Track days will not improve reaction speed, but racing will.

Bad cornering- being taught by people who actually understand all the dynamics at play, combined with acceptance the real world does not play fair and is actually trying to kill you, will improve your chances, and the fun factor that is a series of twisties.Genuine race lines and road lines are different.

Bad decision making- generally, bad decision making occurs under pressure because it all happens too fast and a degree of "freeze" gets in the way- to create time to make better decisions without having to think, refer to "slow reations", and/or, go racing.

Track days give you the chance to genuinely exploes your bikes potential, but generally only racing will teach you to go fast, interestingly, the guys in the "fast group" at Ruapuna track days will usually race past the race guys in the group to gain.........? not sure who they try to show they are "fast" , girlfriend on the pit wall maybe. The race guys wear a dayglo vest, pointed out at rider briefing, follow for a lap or two and you get an idea of the right way around, when you go flying past the race guy because he is too slow for you, maybe you need to front up on the grid and show the rest of us how to catch Stroud.

CSS was great, I knew less than I thought I did, and I had already been racing for a while.
Mainland course was great, new less than I thought, and I have ridden road forever.

Get knowledge, skills, training from anywhere you can, anytime you can, don't rush off to bag someone elses teaching/coaching unless you are in fact, of a higher standard of knowledge, ablity and qualification that they are - and if you are, wright a book and make the movie, I will come.....

Awesome post

[Katman]

To claim Keith Code (and by proxy all CSS instructors) has "blood on his hands" is funamentally stupid.

I used to wonder where the fixation with wanking on about 'chicken strips' came from on here.

It was only when I sat down and tried to watch one of Keith Code's videos that I realised where it stemmed from.

[SVboy]

[

Unfortunately, motorcyclists seem to be more readily seduced by the CSS option - presumably because it has the word Superbike in it and it's held on a racetrack.[/QUOTE]

Another sweeping statement from Katman that needs evidence of some kind to back it up, hey but keep it up KM, you are only detracting further from whatever validity you thought your original points had.

[Voltaire]

Not if the only ability they plan on improving is getting from A to B faster than the last time.

Done the Superbike School.....
I've got my lap times down quite a bit using the CSS techniques.....there ain't no chicken strips on my tyres..... but the rocker cover has a few scrapes.....but then it is a BMW twin.
My daily rider is a BMW twin too....its got chicken strips.
Booked in for March too.... and an ART day.....

out of interest ...done either of them?

[SVboy]

I used to wonder where the fixation with wanking on about 'chicken strips' came from on here.

It was only when I sat down and tried to watch one of Keith Code's videos that I realised where it stemmed from.

I have watched the original TOTW and the updated TOTW. Cheesy yes-emphasis on loosing chicken strips-no.That is a bizarre interpretation. Both videos are about trying to understand and place repeatable skills to improve cornering. Improved skills in cornering safely are a good thing right KM or are you so stubborn that you cant see this?