North Harbour Yamaha gone

[Robert Taylor]

I don't think I'd want to sit down after being arse raped

Your DL650 we finished today and I think it may have come in at slightly less than we estimated. Thankyou for dealing locally!

[Robert Taylor]

You got a real steep street to get up to your place!



Ask Tony Rees why he switched to Honda.

Yep, already know.

[Robert Taylor]

It all sounds like normal business in todays world to me ie: Boom and bust cycles, competition causing restructuring, new techology becoming available, global markets etc.

Things have been chaging for many years and it's not just the buying of goods on the internet that has "caused problems".

Incidently for every 1 job lost, 2.6 are created by the Internet.

Please quote a long list of examples then, 10000 jobs lost, 26000 created..........................If 10000 jobs are lost here and 20000 of the supposed new jobs are created offshore and only 6000 here then there is a problem, a BIG problem.

BTW Im not complaining so much about the internet, its just that through traditional old world buying channels at your local shops the Government collected gst nearly 100% of the time. Now it is failing to do so with a huge volume of offshore purchases. That is a huge inequity that retailers are understandably very upset about.

[bluninja]

Your DL650 we finished today and I think it may have come in at slightly less than we estimated. Thankyou for dealing locally!

Woohoo on both counts. Will ring tomorrow morning to arrange coming in to pick up and pay (Will you set static sag whilst I'm there?). This will be the second bike you've done for me, last time I was in Auckland and you did the forks and sent me an Ohlins rear shock for my SV650 race bike.

[Zedder]

Please quote a long list of examples then, 10000 jobs lost, 26000 created..........................If 10000 jobs are lost here and 20000 of the supposed new jobs are created offshore and only 6000 here then there is a problem, a BIG problem.

BTW Im not complaining so much about the internet, its just that through traditional old world buying channels at your local shops the Government collected gst nearly 100% of the time. Now it is failing to do so with a huge volume of offshore purchases. That is a huge inequity that retailers are understandably very upset about.

You clearly referred to far too many purchases going offshore in the second line of your post Robert. It's done via the Internet these days.

[Robert Taylor]

You clearly referred to far too many purchases going offshore in the second line of your post Robert. It's done via the Internet these days.

Yes and I purchase a number of items online myself, but ALWAYS I support NZ businesses first and foremost because they reinvest in their local communities and employ our own people. If the price disparity is huge then at least Ive given them the opportunity first and foremost.

As far as those statistics go that you quote remember that statistics can always be manipulated to suit any viewpoint. Its what is not said that is the open to scrutiny

[Zedder]

Yes and I purchase a number of items online myself, but ALWAYS I support NZ businesses first and foremost because they reinvest in their local communities and employ our own people. If the price disparity is huge then at least Ive given them the opportunity first and foremost.

As far as those statistics go that you quote remember that statistics can always be manipulated to suit any viewpoint. Its what is not said that is the open to scrutiny

Good on you then. It's not only statistics but job vacancies that tell the tale.

[Digitdion]

BTW Im not complaining so much about the internet, its just that through traditional old world buying channels at your local shops the Government collected gst nearly 100% of the time. Now it is failing to do so with a huge volume of offshore purchases. That is a huge inequity that retailers are understandably very upset about.

What about all the extra gst the government get to collect from courier company's. The courier company's seem to be booming work wise.

[Robert Taylor]

What about all the extra gst the government get to collect from courier company's. The courier company's seem to be booming work wise.

Maybe, but that in no way justifies the inequity that I have made light of.

[Swoop]

When I worked at Whiting and Waltho in the early 1970's EVERY British bike in the showroom had at least one drip tray under it.

Yup. Those damn Japs did that to them. Bastards! Ruining British manufacturing quality like they did.

[flyingcrocodile46]

Mr Taylor,

If a hundred people each spend $1500 buying imported products or parts for imported products online for half the price that the local distributor charges and they each save a grand each year. That is $150,000 sent off shore but $300,000 out of the cashflow of the distributor.

You have previously made the argument that local distributors often can't buy the goods at the same rates that Joe Public can get on ebay etc. If that is true the distributor probably would have had to send between $200,000 to $250,000 (say $225,000) off shore to buy the goods. Assuming the distributor had to lay of a staff member to offset the loss of business, a $40,000 to $60,000 kiwi job (that would otherwise be paid for by kiwi$) is likely lost.

Seems to me that if the goods are imported into NZ in exchange for Kiwi$ in either event (i.e not made in NZ) then the country is better off if we all buy online. As is illustrated in the above example the net result is that 100 kiwis have saved themselves $150,000 in total which they can spend on locally provided massages , manicures, anal bleaching etc and down at the local cafe when they eat NZ made food that is cooked and served by newly employed staff who are earning wages similar to that lost by the unemployed parts person/people.

In situations where the products can only be obtained from overseas, not only is it probable that unemployment may actually decrease (at least a little), but the country's trade deficit would be $75,000 better off.

I know it doesn't all work like this, and that some of the saved money will be spent on other imported products, but it ain't all as bad for the country as you make out.

The point is that it is just as likely that the country would actually be better off by not supporting NZ distributors of imported goods (at least the ones who claim that they can't buy as cheap as Joe Public can). They either need to improve their buying and/or business model or move out of the way if they have the best interest of the country at heart.

BTW I don't lump your 'value added' business model in quite the same category as it can morph into setting up and servicing privately imported goods (when appropriate). Yes I know the issues you have raised in this respect, but the point is that your business has that option to survive ok. (unless you really do make a killing on the parts you import)

[Voltaire]

good post Mr Crok.
I have a van that I take to the same tyre shop whenever it needs tyres, they are friendly and helpful and their tyres are priced not too high. My wife took in a flat the other day, it was stuffed and they fitted a new one, she took in the van 1/2 expecting them to just say heres the tyre show me the money....but no....they fitted the tyre and put the spare back under the rear of the van. Thats whey I go there.

I had an Italian bike , took the wheel into them for a new tyre, they did not have the exact size in stock so fitted a 'slighty bigger' one " should be ok"......well it did not clear the hugger and I had to take it back....they then sent out and got the correct tyre..... I can now reccommend Drury Tyres ( and they are miles away) as I never go to that bike shop anymore ( 15 minutes away)

In fact I have poor service at bike shops in the 80's to thank for making me upskill to not need them.

I'd say over 60% of the contractors I use now are from overseas, so the Kiwis loosing jobs argument does not really stack up.....and I'm talking skilled trades jobs too.

[bluninja]

Mr Taylor,

If a hundred people each spend $1500 buying imported products or parts for imported products online for half the price that the local distributor charges and they each save a grand each year. That is $150,000 sent off shore but $300,000 out of the cashflow of the distributor.

Wow! So are you really saying that the product markup for local NZ businesses is 100%. How disingenous of you. And what of the 15% GST? Is that included in the 100% markup? So there's also $1,750 in GST that's being missed gy the gummit, and you know they will balance thier books by taking extra tax elsewhere. (BTW that's the extra GST lost ...as at $1500 they would pay GST...unless they break it into sub $500 orders then the gummit would miss out on $3500).

You have previously made the argument that local distributors often can't buy the goods at the same rates that Joe Public can get on ebay etc. If that is true the distributor probably would have had to send between $200,000 to $250,000 (say $225,000) off shore to buy the goods.

I would dispute that local distributers cannot get rates comparable to retail rates over the internet, but your assumption that they will pay 30-65% more is really over egging things....but maybe I'm wrong.

I know it doesn't all work like this, and that some of the saved money will be spent on other imported products, but it ain't all as bad for the country as you make out.

Agree with this a bit, but your starting on such flaky foundations makes everything else suspect. Your presumption that Kiwis will spend their 'saved' money on local Kiwi services is also pretty dubious IMHO. It's just as likely those thatmade a saving from buying goodies on the internet are just as likely to buy more cheap good from the internet as buy local Kiwi servcies or Kiwi manufactured goods.

The point is that it is just as likely that the country would actually be better off by not supporting NZ distributors of imported goods (at least the ones who claim that they can't buy as cheap as Joe Public can). They either need to improve their buying and/or business model or move out of the way if they have the best interest of the country at heart.

BTW I don't lump your 'value added' business model in quite the same category as it can morph into setting up and servicing privately imported goods (when appropriate). Yes I know the issues you have raised in this respect, but the point is that your business has that option to survive ok. (unless you really do make a killing on the parts you import)

Iceland did really well producing next to nothing and relying on (banking) services to sustain their economy didn't they? Of course once the local distributers are gone and the GST isn't flowing fast enough the gummit will not have a problem increasing it's revenue stream, perhaps by GST on all imported goods, plus a border collection levy (following the user pays model) and then we get back to having imports at the same price to the consumer as buying local; but now the local people are flipping burgers and working in call centres, and the next generation can't get the training or experience.

I know business is cyclical, I know the job of a successful businessperson is to respond quickly to change (or even precipitate change), but if there was no national loyalty and businesses were transportable, then it would make sense to me for many NZ businesses to trade offshore and have agents to provide local value add.

[flyingcrocodile46]

=bluninja;1130463538]Wow! So are you really saying that the product markup for local NZ businesses is 100%. How disingenous of you.

I didn't say that at all. You did. Which of course makes you the "disingenuous" one doesn't it?

And what of the 15% GST? Is that included in the 100% markup? So there's also $1,750 in GST that's being missed gy the gummit, and you know they will balance thier books by taking extra tax elsewhere. (BTW that's the extra GST lost ...as at $1500 they would pay GST...unless they break it into sub $500 orders then the gummit would miss out on $3500).

Sorry dude but that 100% mark up is yours to justify, not mine. I'm sure you can work it out in your own time.

I would dispute that local distributers cannot get rates comparable to retail rates over the internet, but your assumption that they will pay 30-65% more is really over egging things....but maybe I'm wrong.

Mr Taylor can explain it to you. Or you can search his old posts. But it is a fact that some distributor contracts can be disadvantageous in areas of pricng when someone else has negotiated a significantly better buying rate from the manufacturer based on volume and who then proceed to move their volume on fleabay and such. Nothing new there, it's a business risk that you need to consider when negotiating pricing and distributor contracts. Profit:Risk, Profit:Risk = Gamble = sometinmes you lose. Would you cry at a Casino if you gambled and lost?

Agree with this a bit, but your starting on such flaky foundations makes everything else suspect. Your presumption that Kiwis will spend their 'saved' money on local Kiwi services is also pretty dubious IMHO. It's just as likely those thatmade a saving from buying goodies on the internet are just as likely to buy more cheap good from the internet as buy local Kiwi servcies or Kiwi manufactured goods.

Which is pretty much exactly what I said. Perhaps some of the "flakes" got in your eyes and resulted in a comprehension break down.

I'll ignore the rest as it's all a bit disjointed and pointless. I clearly stated that my example was only in respect to goods that had to be imported because they aren't made in NZ. We can call it even for you ignoring that and the benefits to our trading balance.

What we are really talking about here is whether the potential profit or saving is in the pocket of the distributor or the pockets of multiple buyers. This is an opportunity to reverse the money flow a bit rather than continuing on the path that has resulted in 90+% of the worlds wealth residing with less than 10% of the population.

[bluninja]

I didn't say that at all. You did. Which of course makes you the "disingenuous" one doesn't it?

Yup, got me on that one. You stated the spend offshore versus your hypothetical double the price from local distributer. ....I filled in a margin that wasn't there. Apols.

Sorry dude but that 100% mark up is yours to justify, not mine. I'm sure you can work it out in your own time.

The figures for GST based on those you presented are correct. The margin is made up by my miscomprehension.

Which is pretty much exactly what I said. Perhaps some of the "flakes" got in your eyes and resulted in a comprehension break down.

Guilty again.....I thin I am being MARGINalised here

I'll ignore the rest as it's all a bit disjointed and pointless. I clearly stated that my example was only in respect to goods that had to be imported because they aren't made in NZ. We can call it even for you ignoring that and the benefits to our trading balance.

Fairy snuff...didn't even get to go into the cod wars either meh.

What we are really talking about here is whether the potential profit or saving is in the pocket of the distributor or the pockets of multiple buyers. This is an opportunity to reverse the money flow a bit rather than continuing on the path that has resulted in 90+% of the worlds wealth residing with less than 10% of the population.

Ain't gonna change this...just better hope they keep spending it.