Haldanes is closed

[Ocean1]

It's certainly not the retailer.

I think you're right. And what's more the retailer's are under far more pressure to compete, there's always another shop a couple of towns away at most, whereas the distributors have an effective monopoly. So, how much overall margin is there on, say a 1200 GS from the factory to the showroom here? Based on those US prices you'd have to say it's at least 100%. Now that pisses me off.

[Zedder]

You have hit the nail on the head! In the future I can see 2 option s for a business model moving forward. Either the wholesaler goes, and the retailer gets there stuff direct from manufacturer.I doubt if this will happen.

Or the wholesalers bring them selves out of the shadows and start retailing. I would expect that this would only happen after most retailers have gone bust.

It's called evolution.

Yep, the wholesaler-turned-retailer has certainly been happening in other industries for a while so it could very well be applied to this case.

[ktm84mxc]

I'd suggest if you wanted a BMW GS fly to the US buy one do a 3-4 wk tour and bring it back, you should be exempt from US duties as it will be exported etc.
The prices vary as it's economy of scale the US is the worlds biggest market and as such can dictate to the manufacturer the price its willing to pay.
The only shops that seem to be surviving are the rural ones maybe there over heads are way less, in the big city's it can cost 2.5-3 g a week just to keep the doors open let alone have staff on to meet the customers.
Economies follow a pattern first its walk, horse and dray, bicycle, motorbike, car for personal transport . A classic case is China .

[trustme]

I've always thought that Cycletreads was really just Northern Accessories retail division. Whites sell on line through ' bits for bikes '. The wholesalers already deal direct.

[trustme]

I'd suggest if you wanted a BMW GS fly to the US buy one do a 3-4 wk tour and bring it back, you should be exempt from US duties as it will be exported etc.
The prices vary as it's economy of scale the US is the worlds biggest market and as such can dictate to the manufacturer the price its willing to pay.
The only shops that seem to be surviving are the rural ones maybe there over heads are way less, in the big city's it can cost 2.5-3 g a week just to keep the doors open let alone have staff on to meet the customers.
Economies follow a pattern first its walk, horse and dray, bicycle, motorbike, car for personal transport . A classic case is China .

I suspect the rural guys survive on the sale & service of quads to cocky's.
There is a Harley dealer under a little pressure as well, tough times

[BMWST?]

I think you're right. And what's more the retailer's are under far more pressure to compete, there's always another shop a couple of towns away at most, whereas the distributors have an effective monopoly. So, how much overall margin is there on, say a 1200 GS from the factory to the showroom here? Based on those US prices you'd have to say it's at least 100%. Now that pisses me off.

i dont know .i doubt if bmw bikes come into NZ a container at a time.I also beleive that the price for a bike is set even before the bike is released to market Its alos hard to compare prices from market to market.For expample the super ten is cheaper than a 1200 gs in america but in britain a s10 is more expensive than a base model gs.Its also hard to say what a 1200 gs from market to market as they can have so many options.The retail price of every bike is way less in the US.I dont know what the reason is but i bet that motomart dont have a 100 percent margin in a new 1200gs.BMW bikes come under the umbrella of Aussie

[scracha]

Yep, the wholesaler-turned-retailer has certainly been happening in other industries for a while so it could very well be applied to this case.

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/S...0FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk )...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

[sugilite:Me]

I suspect the rural guys survive on the sale & service of quads to cocky's.

Yes they do totally make their $$ out of cocky atv sales and servicing. When we had a big drought here a few years back, the cocky's stopped bringing the quads in, it almost sent the 3 bike shops in dvke down.
They don't often have interesting road bikes though. I get my fix from going to the big bike shops in wellies. I think people are being a bit dramatic to say all the bike shops will close. For sure some will, but then the other remaining ones will pick up their business and eventually and equilibrium will be found. Thinking of no crasher bad coffees at Wellington Motorcycles sends a shiver down my spine, but there is no way Gary Gill would let that happen, he is to astute a business man.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Thinking of no crasher bad coffees at Wellington Motorcycles sends a shiver down my spine, but there is no way Gary Gill would let that happen, he is to astute a business man to let that happen.

lol. Yeah can't see me or my coffees going anywhere anytime soon.

[BMWST?]

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/S...0FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk )...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

This is where the bike shops dont have a choice They simply cant get their bikes through any other channels.You might be able to buy some new Honda s say from a US dealer once,But i bet it wont happen a second time.And there is justification for it,the NZ distributors for each brand have a lot of investment in infrastructure alone.The ONLY similar industry i can think of would be boats/PWC....whats those industries like at the mo?
They probably cant get their gear anywhere else either as the NZ distributors have the sole rights to their brands in NZ

[pritch]

These KB discussions can be entertaining but I can't seem to remember one that resulted in anybody changing their mind.

In 1960 there were, I think, three dealers in town here. Two were in the main street, one just a few yards away.
None were big. The smallest was the AJS/Matchless and later Suzuki dealer. It was pretty much a one-man band. The owner was the manager, the salesman, parts man, and mechanic, he probably did the bookwork too. There was usually also an apprentice. The other dealers would not have been much bigger.

Twenty years ago, other dealerships had sprung up but the Suzuki dealer (then also Ducati, BMW, and Husqvarna) still trading under the same name, employed the owners: husband and wife, an office girl, one or sometimes two salesmen, parts man, several mechanics and a gofer. At the time the thought occurred to me that business had better stay good. It didn't. That dealership has gone. So have some others.

The three surviving dealerships have quite large premises away from the main street. One has some 68 bikes on the floor.

In the rural areas I suspect that it is the farm bike sales that are keeping the dealerships ticking over. It certainly isn't road bike sales. The Honda dealers have my sympathy, tied as they are to an importer that refuses to import most of the road bike range.

So it may be that we are on our way back to the future; smaller and leaner. The slimmed down operations could probably move back to the main street too, God knows there are enough empty shops.

Seems like it isn't a great time to be in the industry which is a pity 'cause there are some good people in it. Here's hoping things look up in the near future.

[Zedder]

Like other industries, the small independent bike shops will have to change their business model or die. They'll still make their money on accessories, servicing and used bikes etc but sales of new bikes are pretty much a waste of time for the wee guys. Even servicing is going to as some brands of bike require so much investment in both knowledge and specialised tools to service them. The bike brands / wholesalers / disti's that don't accommodate their dealers needs (a.k.a. making money) will find their more intelligent dealers simply dropping them and/or parallel importing themselves.

Replace the word "bike" with quite a few other commodities at the moment and you'll get the idea. Want to have a vast array of items to choose from, you go to a pile em high style chain store. Want to get knowledgable advice and servicing, you go to a specialist. The specialist will simply charge you for their time. Good customers recognise repeated good service and many will still likely order their new shiny motorcycle from the local bike shop (even if it's not currently in stock) so long as the price is in the correct ballpark.

Don't expect to be able to pop into your local bike shop and test ride or buy the latest shiny motorcycle. I'd imagine sites like the following will become more common and dealers will simply be loaned the bikes for you to try out (and subsequently buy).
http://www.suzuki.co.nz/Motorcycle/S...0FA/Test-Ride/

And yeah bar Suzuki (yuk )...NZ prices are generally shite. I'm surprised someone isn't parallel importing crate-loads of Yamahas and Hondas and setting up a channel with dealers not restricted by a franchise restriction.

Even though these are used bikes, this is what I'm talking about as a possibility for NZ with new bikes:http://www.proud2ridemotorcycles.com/motorcycle-export

[Ocean1]

i dont know .i doubt if bmw bikes come into NZ a container at a time.

How do they come in, then? It's almost certainly inside a container, so the cost of transport will be the same per bike whether the container's full of bikes or one bike and a thousand soft toys.

I also beleive that the price for a bike is set even before the bike is released to market

What's that got to do with the huge differences in prices across those markets?

Its alos hard to compare prices from market to market.For expample the super ten is cheaper than a 1200 gs in america but in britain a s10 is more expensive than a base model gs.

Yes. That's what I said, the prices are all over the place.

Its also hard to say what a 1200 gs from market to market as they can have so many options.

The prices I compared were essentiall the same basic bikes. Top of the line R1200 GS is similarly much dearer here.

The retail price of every bike is way less in the US.

Yeah, that's what I said. Why?

i bet that motomart dont have a 100 percent margin in a new 1200gs.BMW bikes come under the umbrella of Aussie

So who does have a margin of 100% on a new 1200 gs here? Someone, or a collection of someones does. You're suggesting the Aussies have something to do with it?

It's far too easy to wave it off as very complicated and to do with market forces we can't guess at and wouldn't understand. And there's certainly an element of size of the individual order and of the overall market in setting purchase price ex factory. But 140% to 200%? Fuck off, if I wanted one and couldn't go around the national distributor to the US or UK then I wouldn't be buying one on principle, even if I could afford it.

[BoristheBiter]

and the importer s of the bikes themselves and the importers of the bike gear work on business models that dont allow the bike shops to get the best deals themselves .

Again, because we are so small the importers either have to "piggyback" off an Australian supplier so have two lots of import and freight hence the higher price of they do buy direct and have to pay higher as it isn't a large order.

All this talk of bike price difference is strange as when we were in Melbourne the price of KTM bikes where basically the same as here (but in $aus),
Also all the gear was the same as well just more choice.

[SPman]

You don't think it's got anything to do with the NZ economy being totally fucked, a gov that can't be fucked doing anything about it and, luckily for the economy, 100,000
+ people have buggered off to Aus.? Imagine if they were all still in NZ and most were on the dole! More and more people have less and less money to get by on.......bike shops aren't the only businesses falling over, nasty though it may be. Richard was always good to deal with!
Had a cousin sell up in Perth and move back to NZ middle of last year. She'd lived and worked overseas for 20 odd yrs......after 6 months, she's packing up again and moving back to Oz - she was shocked at how bad it actually is there, now. Couldn't get a job, wages offered were crap, and the whole feel of the place was bad......like a third world, low wage economy! Family and country ties aren't enough to keep her there (she's Maori)....and it's going to get worse for most of you........

Prices in Aus - new are cheaper than NZ in aus dollars, but, in aus, we are paid in aus dollars, and normally more of them.......