Why work? A couple from the UK asks

[007XX]

I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing. Certainly attitudes need changing and that is the key. The saying goes, "It is attitude more than aptitude that determines altitude."

There are many who lack self-belief and self-worth who need to know they can do whatever they want, that they don't have to be "smart" or well educated or get a "good job." Supplying the tools is one thing, letting the person know he can use them or learn to use them is the other.

I told my kids that it is perfectly normal not to know what they wanted in life, or wanted to pursue, the important thing was that they did something in the meantime regardless. As we get older and more expreienced we gradually work out where we want to go and change our vocation and re-educate accordingly. Nothing worth while comes easy or quick and we need to appreciate that it will take time and effort to get where we want to go. However we need reassurance that by putting in said time and effort, we CAN achieve our goals, from wherever we started, be it a silver spoon or a wooden one.

A lot of the world's millionnaires started with nothing and no education, but they had a determination and a belief in themselves that let them overcome reversal and disappointment and keep going. "These types" may benefit from counselling in self-worth as a lack of opportunity can be soul destroying if it goes on too long. Too many people are also too quick to tell us we can't do something, or will never succeed. These poeple need to be told politely to shut up!

Quick, someone code me an emoticon for having a tantrum...

I've ran out of bling for you.



Since I left school 20 years ago, I've been:
A waitress
A plasterer (plus dabbled in other building skills)
A ceramic tile layer
A fruit picker
A sales rep (too many freakin years of it)
A customer service officer
An alarm technician
A kitchen designer
A self employed writer
An assistant manager in retail
A PA / receptionist/ administrative assistant
A cake decorator (still do that, it's awesome)

Didn't speak a word of english when I made it to NZ, left with just a gleam in my eye and whatever I could pack in a duffel bag.

I didn't know what I wanted to do out of school, still struggle to know whether I can fit just one job so that's why I went for the broadest qualification I could find.

I'm stuffed if that's the best for me, but just like when I came here all these years ago, I'm scared but mostly hugely excited, so it's got to mean that it's the right thing to do.

I truly wish I could encourage people to throw themselves in, scare themselves a little on a regular basis, try new things and live goddammit!

But they never take it up, or if they do, not for long

[Edbear]

Quick, someone code me an emoticon for having a tantrum...

I've ran out of bling for you.



Since I left school 20 years ago, I've been:
A waitress
A plasterer (plus dabbled in other building skills)
A ceramic tile layer
A fruit picker
A sales rep (too many freakin years of it)
A customer service officer
An alarm technician
A kitchen designer
A self employed writer
An assistant manager in retail
A PA / receptionist/ administrative assistant
A cake decorator (still do that, it's awesome)

Didn't speak a word of english when I made it to NZ, left with just a gleam in my eye and whatever I could pack in a duffel bag.

I didn't know what I wanted to do out of school, still struggle to know whether I can fit just one job so that's why I went for the broadest qualification I could find.

I'm stuffed if that's the best for me, but just like when I came here all these years ago, I'm scared but mostly hugely excited, so it's got to mean that it's the right thing to do.

I truly wish I could encourage people to throw themselves in, scare themselves a little on a regular basis, try new things and live goddammit!

But they never take it up, or if they do, not for long

LOL!!! "You must spread..!" We'll just have to reserve some for each other.

I do think I have found my niche, finally... Now it's just trying to make sure the body holds up. Should advise against damaging yourself too much, it does set you back somewhat.

[007XX]

LOL!!! "You must spread..!" We'll just have to reserve some for each other.

I do think I have found my niche, finally... Now it's just trying to make sure the body holds up. Should advise against damaging yourself too much, it does set you back somewhat.

Too late, I've already had kids

Got new bruises from dunking my 15 year old (all 70 kgs worth) into the surf on the weekend. Little shit is getting strong

But yes, I get what you're saying. Very happy you're in "that place" finally.

[Edbear]

Too late, I've already had kids

Got new bruises from dunking my 15 year old (all 70 kgs worth) into the surf on the weekend. Little shit is getting strong

But yes, I get what you're saying. Very happy you're in "that place" finally.

I think that was near the age I gave up arm-wrestling my son. I could still beat him at chess though if I concentrated.

[_Shrek_]

Congrats man (and just to make this abundandtly clear I mean that sincerely without sarcasm etc...). Might I ask why you didn't do what you've accomplished earlier?

when I left home @ 14 I lived in the streets (Auckland) was a runner for certain types of people, then moved sth when the heat got to much, the caught up with me three years later, borrowing cars etc.... got to check out hotel de-rock on remand, got bailed & made my mind up never to go back :
Judge Augustas Wallace, said I was going to get a chance of a life time use it wisely, moved back to the sth Is, but booze drugs etc... got in the way again.... ended up back in court.... some one said join the Army that will help so thats what I did (terries)...... it kept me out of jail....
but as I had this large chip I carried round, I felt the world owed me some thing, after helping wreck my 1st marriage of 7 years

I hooked up with mrs S & with her help started to get on right track, except the drugs still a big hold on me & I was dragging mrs S down with me..... when I finely woke up to it, I was 30 & she 29..... since then we have moved ahead forward mostly.....

[mashman]

I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing. Certainly attitudes need changing and that is the key. The saying goes, "It is attitude more than aptitude that determines altitude."

There are many who lack self-belief and self-worth who need to know they can do whatever they want, that they don't have to be "smart" or well educated or get a "good job." Supplying the tools is one thing, letting the person know he can use them or learn to use them is the other.

I told my kids that it is perfectly normal not to know what they wanted in life, or wanted to pursue, the important thing was that they did something in the meantime regardless. As we get older and more expreienced we gradually work out where we want to go and change our vocation and re-educate accordingly. Nothing worth while comes easy or quick and we need to appreciate that it will take time and effort to get where we want to go. However we need reassurance that by putting in said time and effort, we CAN achieve our goals, from wherever we started, be it a silver spoon or a wooden one.

A lot of the world's millionnaires started with nothing and no education, but they had a determination and a belief in themselves that let them overcome reversal and disappointment and keep going. "These types" may benefit from counselling in self-worth as a lack of opportunity can be soul destroying if it goes on too long. Too many people are also too quick to tell us we can't do something, or will never succeed. These poeple need to be told politely to shut up!

No we're not ... Further to attitude, I think we've lost the acceptance that some people just can't keep up with others and they're "punished" for it.

Whilst low self-esteem may well be part of it, I doubt that that's the overriding factor. I have no doubt that there are many who know that they're capable of running businesses, as they do (just not ones that are on the books or are strictly legal), yet they manage cashflow, they manage people, they manage strategy in a competitive marketplace. All of those things take place, but they're not recognised and who is going to drop themselves in the shit at an interview and explain what they've been doing and expecting to walk out with the managers job? I syill think that the two main factors of a lack of direction/goals and the money being offered in exchange for their time being less than they can earn in other ways. It's not just "our" way vs you're not trying hard enough.

Plenty of worth while things come easy as it's as complicated as we decide to make it. That may not be true in financial terms (which I assume you're alluding to?), but things needn't be as complicated as we make them... which is a part of the NOW "philosophy" i.e. if something is worth doing that's of benefit, why are there barriers in the way? The barriers really needn't be there.

Yes lots of people have made it. Yes lots of people have done the hard yards, but so have millions of people before them and likely more so in many ways. I agree with the politely shut up bit and the down too long to a degree, but success may not be a driver for people. It isn't for me. I'd be surprised if I were the only person who didn't feel the want/need to succeed. I don't see it as a pre-requisite for self-worth or to bolster my soul etc... I prescribe to the Einstein view "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value.". I think our thinking is a bit fucked up where we celebrate success at any cost and deride anything other than that as being of no value. Value can be as simple as doing 2 hours in any job at all, something that is not allowed to happen as we currently demand payment for our time.

[mashman]

Quick, someone code me an emoticon for having a tantrum...

like this one or this one

[007XX]

like this one or this one

Non, non...I vant zee stompin foot wone!

*no idea why that voice in my head sounded like that stupid french gendarme out of "Allo allo!", but there ya go...

[007XX]

No we're not ... Further to attitude, I think we've lost the acceptance that some people just can't keep up with others and they're "punished" for it.


Plenty of worth while things come easy as it's as complicated as we decide to make it. That may not be true in financial terms (which I assume you're alluding to?), but things needn't be as complicated as we make them... which is a part of the NOW "philosophy" i.e. if something is worth doing that's of benefit, why are there barriers in the way? The barriers really needn't be there.

Yes lots of people have made it. Yes lots of people have done the hard yards, but so have millions of people before them and likely more so in many ways. I agree with the politely shut up bit and the down too long to a degree, but success may not be a driver for people. It isn't for me. I'd be surprised if I were the only person who didn't feel the want/need to succeed. I don't see it as a pre-requisite for self-worth or to bolster my soul etc... I prescribe to the Einstein view "Strive not to be a success, but rather to be of value.". I think our thinking is a bit fucked up where we celebrate success at any cost and deride anything other than that as being of no value. Value can be as simple as doing 2 hours in any job at all, something that is not allowed to happen as we currently demand payment for our time.

Now those points, I struggle to argue against.

[mashman]

when I left home @ 14 I lived in the streets (Auckland) was a runner for certain types of people, then moved sth when the heat got to much, the caught up with me three years later, borrowing cars etc.... got to check out hotel de-rock on remand, got bailed & made my mind up never to go back :
Judge Augustas Wallace, said I was going to get a chance of a life time use it wisely, moved back to the sth Is, but booze drugs etc... got in the way again.... ended up back in court.... some one said join the Army that will help so thats what I did (terries)...... it kept me out of jail....
but as I had this large chip I carried round, I felt the world owed me some thing, after helping wreck my 1st marriage of 7 years

I hooked up with mrs S & with her help started to get on right track, except the drugs still a big hold on me & I was dragging mrs S down with me..... when I finely woke up to it, I was 30 & she 29..... since then we have moved ahead forward mostly.....

Oh gawd am I glad I asked . Think we all know people who did them sorts of things for a living, each to their own degree (just a job though eh ). I'm curious about the chip on the shoulder and the world owing you a living... something I've never experienced and something I've never directly questioned of another. By all means tell me to fuck off like .

[Edbear]

I'm not saying success is being a millionnaire, or anbything in particular. Success is in being able to look after oneself and in being happy. Of course we all differ in our values and goals, but the OP was about whether one should be working for a living or living off the benefit.

The Biblical principle is one I personally agree with but is often misquoted. It actually reads, "He who does not want to work, neither shall he eat."

If someone disadvantaged needs support, then that support should be given, but with the provisio that the person concerned desires to achieve self-sufficiency and is prepared to work at doing so, be that looking for a job, or retraining in a realsitc manner to get work. And not be too fussy about what they have to do.

No-one should be encouraged to have the attitude that the world owes them and they should sit on their butts and expect others to provide for them.

[mashman]

Non, non...I vant zee stompin foot wone!

*no idea why that voice in my head sounded like that stupid french gendarme out of "Allo allo!", but there ya go...

Now those points, I struggle to argue against.

A la Monty Python?

Don't knock it, it worked for me, cheers (Yvette from the caf used to make my nethers twitch sommet fierce)

The whole ethos of NOW man ... ommmmmmmmmmmmm

[unstuck]

By all means tell me to fuck off like .

Fuck off like.That was my chip talking.

[mashman]

I'm not saying success is being a millionnaire, or anbything in particular. Success is in being able to look after oneself and in being happy. Of course we all differ in our values and goals, but the OP was about whether one should be working for a living or living off the benefit.

The Biblical principle is one I personally agree with but is often misquoted. It actually reads, "He who does not want to work, neither shall he eat."

If someone disadvantaged needs support, then that support should be given, but with the provisio that the person concerned desires to achieve self-sufficiency and is prepared to work at doing so, be that looking for a job, or retraining in a realsitc manner to get work. And not be too fussy about what they have to do.

No-one should be encouraged to have the attitude that the world owes them and they should sit on their butts and expect others to provide for them.

Very true. And the couple in the OP had figured that they would be happier by not pursuing further education, "poorly" paid work etc... and therefore you'd have to class that as a success?

I'd be curious to hear what the modern day version of that statement would be, or perhaps if they'd have added an addendum of "unless there's no jobs". And it's kind of an odd principle given that Churches are so heavily involved in charity.

It's an individual choice and the world owing them a living is a basic right imho. It is us that are unwilling to pay more for that to be a reality, coz we're worth more

[mashman]

Fuck off like.That was my chip talking.

Get a fuckin job ya dodgy cunt.