Why work? A couple from the UK asks

[007XX]

The whole ethos of NOW man ... ommmmmmmmmmmmm

The use of singular not plural here has been duly noted. Freudian slip, I hope it is not

The whole "chip on the shoulder/ government, world owes me" syndrome is way more widespread than you would think.

Because you have never experienced it doesn't make it inexistent.

I grew up with a lot of folks like that. I don't know whether it has solely to do with a lack of money leading to a lack of opportunity either. But struggling for money certainly generates more negative than it does positive.

So doing away with it altogether might just be the answer. I honestly don't know.

It makes me so very angry when I know how little we do to help our youths. If you can be bothered, check out a facebook page titled "homeless at 17...cyps stopped getting paid.."

The young man trying to make a difference is truly inspirational. He would truly blossom within NOW.

[Edbear]

Very true. And the couple in the OP had figured that they would be happier by not pursuing further education, "poorly" paid work etc... and therefore you'd have to class that as a success?

I'd be curious to hear what the modern day version of that statement would be, or perhaps if they'd have added an addendum of "unless there's no jobs". And it's kind of an odd principle given that Churches are so heavily involved in charity.

It's an individual choice and the world owing them a living is a basic right imho. It is us that are unwilling to pay more for that to be a reality, coz we're worth more

The misquote is that most people don't notice the word. "want" in there, and simply say, "he who does not work, neither shall he eat." There is a fundamental difference. The people in the OP said they want to work but their situation meant that what they could do would make them financially worse off. This is not success, this is defeatism.

It is similar here for some too; making the transition from benefit to work is not attractive as they feel they are being disadvantaged. It still comes down to attitude in the end.

[_Shrek_]

I'm curious about the chip on the shoulder and the world owing you a living... something I've never experienced and something I've never directly questioned of another.

not a living just owed me maybe for the missery that my parents put me through ie: the never did anything to help with the beatings from dad & mum said I was just like my father, when I got work after school from 7yo I was going to make lots of $$$ & get the hell out, only thing was I had to start buying my school clothes etc... & later when the coppers dragged me home & made me stay with my mum for a bit, she had control of my pay, told me it was going into a bank.... I guess it was!!! hers never did see it again any way thats when my attitude really hit the bottom.... & off the rails I went... simple really.... once where warriors was my life... colour don't come into it...

but at the end of the day you have a choice.... I made mine & they can too....

[mashman]

The use of singular not plural here has been duly noted. Freudian slip, I hope it is not

The whole "chip on the shoulder/ government, world owes me" syndrome is way more widespread than you would think.

Because you have never experienced it doesn't make it inexistent.

I grew up with a lot of folks like that. I don't know whether it has solely to do with a lack of money leading to a lack of opportunity either. But struggling for money certainly generates more negative than it does positive.

So doing away with it altogether might just be the answer. I honestly don't know.

It makes me so very angry when I know how little we do to help our youths. If you can be bothered, check out a facebook page titled "homeless at 17...cyps stopped getting paid.."

The young man trying to make a difference is truly inspirational. He would truly blossom within NOW.

I'm not quite sure what you mean there and I'm almost hesitant to ask.

I've no doubt that there are those who take the handout gleefully and likely mutter "suckers" under their breath... but not yet with the world owing them a living. True they probably exist, but I've yet to meet anyone who puts it that way as their reasoning for taking the "handout". In ways the world does owe them a living as there aren't enough jobs to go around and from an economics stand point unemployment is, let's call it and inevitable consequence of monetary policy for controlling inflation. The benefit is there for a reason.

If there are more negatives than positives, then something is drastically wrong. For me it's a no brainer, the financial system has to go and for many more reasons other than the negative impact it has on human relationships. That's a fact .

It'd just make me angry. My ex used to be a youth worker on a bus in Drumchapel and on occasion I'd go along to help out. All walks of life on there and only on reflection these days do I see it as an unnecessary "suffering" and waste of human ability. Such a fucken waste...

Anyhoo, number 3 child has had her first day at school, so I'm off to have my ears bled.

[mashman]

The misquote is that most people don't notice the word. "want" in there, and simply say, "he who does not work, neither shall he eat." There is a fundamental difference. The people in the OP said they want to work but their situation meant that what they could do would make them financially worse off. This is not success, this is defeatism.

It is similar here for some too; making the transition from benefit to work is not attractive as they feel they are being disadvantaged. It still comes down to attitude in the end.

I don't see their predicament as being defeatists more over quite pragmatic given the benefits (pun intended) of the chosen "lifestyle". As in previous posts, why put yourself under unneeded "stress" if you don't have to? And by that measure I would deem that society expecting them to suffer that stress is unwarranted and that we should fooken well know better. To that end I reckon there's likely a similar thought process that goes through then minds of most, if not all, of those who find themselves living that "lifestyle". No doubt some of it is knowledge passed on from parent to child. To a huge extent I don't blame them for coming to that conclusion, I blame society and its value/belief system.

not a living just owed me maybe for the missery that my parents put me through ie: the never did anything to help with the beatings from dad & mum said I was just like my father, when I got work after school from 7yo I was going to make lots of $$$ & get the hell out, only thing was I had to start buying my school clothes etc... & later when the coppers dragged me home & made me stay with my mum for a bit, she had control of my pay, told me it was going into a bank.... I guess it was!!! hers never did see it again any way thats when my attitude really hit the bottom.... & off the rails I went... simple really.... once where warriors was my life... colour don't come into it...

but at the end of the day you have a choice.... I made mine & they can too....

EEEEEEEK that's doesn't sound nice in the slightest. And at the risk of having you hunt me down and murdering me in my sleep (gotta love a stereotype eh), do you reckon if your parents had have had money it would have made a difference to your upbringing? I know that's a cunt of a thing to ask and I apologise for being the cunt that's asked the question for many many reasons etc... but given that poverty/low socio-economic factors (wanky talk for having little income) is supposedly linked, I'd be interested to get your opinion.

[_Shrek_]

do you reckon if your parents had have had money it would have made a difference to your upbringing? I know that's a cunt of a thing to ask and I apologise for being the cunt that's asked the question for many many reasons etc... but given that poverty/low socio-economic factors (wanky talk for having little income) is supposedly linked, I'd be interested to get your opinion.

the thing is they did have money... well dad did he was on an average wage for back then.... & dad use to bring home venison two to three times a week.... he was on the railways then, then he became a cop & on good coin to for back then, but he was a piss head etc... & a selfish prick... I guess it's because his old man left when he was a kid & treated him as he treated me, so just a vicious cercle, mum worked to cover what we needed,
it's the lack of communication between them that lead to the down fall, & she became a man hater because of the beatings & him screwing everthing out side their marriage

we have raised 10 of our 11 kids on one wage, I have a rifle, meat was cheap, wife would grow our vedges, & we use to grow out own as well, heads in the bag & tip & leaf in cookies we didn't have a lot & at times & it was a strain but we use to talk about it or just get stoned & the probs would go away for a bit (we've changed that life & started a new)

way I see it mashman if you have love in your relation ship along with communication you can get by with very little at times & lets face it there is always someone worse off than you

& the gubberment is kept out of parents bringing their kids & encouage mums to stay at home & we will see a hudge change in out kids!!!

thats me on this

[bluninja]

I'm confused (easy really)...my recollection of the current financial system is that it started off with simple bartering...time, goods, or services exchanged......this led onto an 'exchange' rate for converting goods and services, which became money.

If goods, services or products were rare, then the value of them increased (assuming there was a desire/need for them). This is the basis for all of todays systems.

Socially we look to providing for ourselves, our close family, our extended family, village, region, country. I don't think we have evolved socially enough to consider providing for humankind as part of our everyday focus to our endevours. Were that the case, there woudl be no wars, no startvation, no overpopulation as we would consider the needs for the whole human family as being of benefit to us individually.

I guess that's why I don't see NOW as anything other than an idealistic substitute that will merely create a different marketplace. But we need idealists to push at the status quo and maybe smalle gains, evolution, or revolution could take place.

Dr John Grey (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) is working towards world peace one relationship at a time. He opines that if we can't relate to our spouses, loved ones and friends in a peaceful loving way how can we have peace and love across the world. I find this approach to social change one that I can work with.

As for dole bludgers.....they are incredibly skilled at what they do and know all the grey areas in the benefits system and what they are (legally) entitled to. I'm not sure that it is the person's fault if they exploit a system that is badly flawed, but I just wish they would apply those skills to something that is beneficial to all.

[mashman]

the thing is they did have money... well dad did he was on an average wage for back then.... & dad use to bring home venison two to three times a week.... he was on the railways then, then he became a cop & on good coin to for back then, but he was a piss head etc... & a selfish prick... I guess it's because his old man left when he was a kid & treated him as he treated me, so just a vicious cercle, mum worked to cover what we needed,
it's the lack of communication between them that lead to the down fall, & she became a man hater because of the beatings & him screwing everthing out side their marriage

we have raised 10 of our 11 kids on one wage, I have a rifle, meat was cheap, wife would grow our vedges, & we use to grow out own as well, heads in the bag & tip & leaf in cookies we didn't have a lot & at times & it was a strain but we use to talk about it or just get stoned & the probs would go away for a bit (we've changed that life & started a new)

way I see it mashman if you have love in your relation ship along with communication you can get by with very little at times & lets face it there is always someone worse off than you

& the gubberment is kept out of parents bringing their kids & encouage mums to stay at home & we will see a hudge change in out kids!!!

thats me on this

Holy fuck shit... 11 kids ... agreed on the relationship thing . We're at the stage where my wife wants back into the workplace so I can take over the stay home role, ya know, go for coffee and underwear parties with the other mums . Bummer being that she can only earn about 1/3 of what I earn which would see us going backwards relatively quickly and given her background, she'd rather not... which leaves me in two minds, albeit I'll end up doing what she suggests. We'll work it out.

Sounds like a varied and colourful life you've had... should our paths ever cross, beers are on me

[mashman]

I'm confused (easy really)...my recollection of the current financial system is that it started off with simple bartering...time, goods, or services exchanged......this led onto an 'exchange' rate for converting goods and services, which became money.

If goods, services or products were rare, then the value of them increased (assuming there was a desire/need for them). This is the basis for all of todays systems.

Socially we look to providing for ourselves, our close family, our extended family, village, region, country. I don't think we have evolved socially enough to consider providing for humankind as part of our everyday focus to our endevours. Were that the case, there woudl be no wars, no startvation, no overpopulation as we would consider the needs for the whole human family as being of benefit to us individually.

I guess that's why I don't see NOW as anything other than an idealistic substitute that will merely create a different marketplace. But we need idealists to push at the status quo and maybe smalle gains, evolution, or revolution could take place.

Dr John Grey (Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus) is working towards world peace one relationship at a time. He opines that if we can't relate to our spouses, loved ones and friends in a peaceful loving way how can we have peace and love across the world. I find this approach to social change one that I can work with.

As for dole bludgers.....they are incredibly skilled at what they do and know all the grey areas in the benefits system and what they are (legally) entitled to. I'm not sure that it is the person's fault if they exploit a system that is badly flawed, but I just wish they would apply those skills to something that is beneficial to all.

You missed that inflation keeps up the need for growth .

We have evolved socially to provide for humankind as part of out everyday focus to our endeavours. However instead of doing things because they need to be done, we create a marketplace and put a value on those endeavours in order to make money. If NOW existed, as you say there would be no starvation (there is enough food to go around, us all eating and not dying is testimony to that fact, we need better logistics however, that and desalination plants in empoverished country's), there may well still be wars over resources ifthey are not freely shared (which they aren't), overpopulation is a given should you not intervene and sterlise men after 2 kids, maybe 3, maybe 4 depending on the numbers... and we do currently hold that we are create for the needs for the whole human family (albeit it's not true) as we are a global community and we are all supposed to be doing stuff that benefits each other and not just making money.

NOW is idealistic, hmmmmmmm. It's better than thing being business not personal. Removing the financial system is the best start we can be given. The rest will take time and who knows what future generations will do with how NOW works. With any luck they'll use it properly and we'll get the fuck off this rock and go play with the rest of the universe. I can't see us achieving that where money is concerned. It's too much of a limiting factor in day to day life and the brain drain it imposes means that we're probably losing some rather interesting perspectives... not to mention the tin foil hat of withheld technology's to protect industry... and on and on and on. The positives outweigh the negatives imho. To that end, NOW is just an idea, not an ideal as there is no end goal, just a "principle" for getting the ball rolling, so no, I don't believe that NOW is idealistic as it is open ended so that it can evolve and respond to the needs of the people.

Screw peace, it'll come or it won't. Forcing it is like fucking for vaginity and is a huge waste of hot air, time and money.

PAH... there's no jobs and even if there were, would they continue to rip us off at the other end of the scale? but yeah, I share your wish.

[unstuck]

Get a fuckin job ya dodgy cunt.

Might have to go out to the woolsheds more often, $280 for 3hrs work yesterday.

[mashman]

Might have to go out to the woolsheds more often, $280 for 3hrs work yesterday.

I didn't realise that sheep "scarring" paid that well. You better fuckin declare it or I'm grassin you up... and not in the way you hope.

[Brian d marge]

You missed that inflation keeps up the need for growth .

.

Go back to the gold standard, where the new money enering the system is tied to the gold entering the system and then regulate the ebbs and flow in and out of the country using monetary policies, So that there are no great booms and busts , to which Dickens oliver twist aluded to and the banks cannot print money using fiat money ,

Stephen

ps as said many imes before , when u marginalise a people , they invent rules and justifications for action this is what is happening here

[mashman]

Go back to the gold standard, where the new money enering the system is tied to the gold entering the system and then regulate the ebbs and flow in and out of the country using monetary policies, So that there are no great booms and busts , to which Dickens oliver twist aluded to and the banks cannot print money using fiat money ,

Stephen

ps as said many imes before , when u marginalise a people , they invent rules and justifications for action this is what is happening here

Same shit different mechanism imho as money is still being created and valued to some measure, be it gold or itself or silver or time or stocks or cattle or knowledge or spam. There's still that inherent value of goods/services that will be prized and those that won't and those that should and those that shouldn't... so I fail to be able to see past ditching the financial system entirely... and I shall not I shall not be moved (without a very fuckin good reason and it will have to be good) on that.

Til then as ya say, we'll keep on losing them freedoms and we'll be thankful for it because we need to get them damned spongers.

[Brian d marge]

Same shit different mechanism imho as money is still being created and valued to some measure, be it gold or itself or silver or time or stocks or cattle or knowledge or spam. There's still that inherent value of goods/services that will be prized and those that won't and those that should and those that shouldn't... so I fail to be able to see past ditching the financial system entirely... and I shall not I shall not be moved (without a very fuckin good reason and it will have to be good) on that.

Til then as ya say, we'll keep on losing them freedoms and we'll be thankful for it because we need to get them damned spongers.

Thats ok
the amount of money enetering the system will be inline with population growth more or less

as for valuing one service over the other. thats ok market forces do have a place just not with essential services

Stephen

[mashman]

Thats ok
the amount of money enetering the system will be inline with population growth more or less

as for valuing one service over the other. thats ok market forces do have a place just not with essential services

Stephen

Fanks.
I get the idea, well as far as I've read... and we may as well assign a value to a child when it's born and re-value the worth of the child each year after... so the child's value will increase in line with the cost of living instead of against a finite commodity.