L's Angels Ride to the Naki (Feb 9/10) 2013

[arcane12]

What I've bolded - wtf does that mean? Clearly it wasn't me that said that, cause I don't know what that is

As for me, I am sure my lines, or whatever are prob f*cked, hard to know if they are or not though because how would I know if I am doing it wrong when I don't know what I'm doing in the first place, haha. I probably need to go out with my mentor and get that sorted a bit better.

The only thing I noticed apart from the staggered thing was when I was following directly behind you at some corners you probably braked a bit hard, because it was hard to see around the corner to know how sharp it was, I think. I was never going to hit you, because of my following distance, but I probably might have if I wasn't paying attention and noticed that was happening. But.. wth am I to say anything really, few months ago I didn't even know how to turn on a bike hahahhaha

Very pretty bike though arcane, was super jealous when we stopped wherever that was at Awakino Gorge, dunno about where you have to keep your feet at the front though, do you find that wierd?

inside line - (racing line) being tight to the inside of the corner, reduces the lean required, but limits options if the corner changes. On the way back I was taking it easy over the mountain as I was worried about that rear tyre. It's booked in for Saturday, though maybe I should take a picture to make all those finger wavers frown at me!

I mostly did my corners at the same speed as the person infront of me, though I have been experimenting with a little extra break pre-corner so I can use more gas through/coming out of the corner without running up the next guys ass

[bosslady]

I mostly did my corners at the same speed as the person infront of me, though I have been experimenting with a little extra break pre-corner so I can use more gas through/coming out of the corner without running up the next guys ass

I seem to use my engine braking a fair bit/changing down a gear, depending on how sharp the corner is... my brakes are so shit house I'm not scared to use them if/when I have to but hate to rely on them to slow me down esp on a sharp corner cause they're so SHIT. I wonder how much better the brakes are on other bikes I hear my bike not so great.

[arcane12]

I seem to use my engine braking a fair bit/changing down a gear, depending on how sharp the corner is... my brakes are so shit house I'm not scared to use them if/when I have to but hate to rely on them to slow me down esp on a sharp corner cause they're so SHIT. I wonder how much better the brakes are on other bikes I hear my bike not so great.

I almost exclusively used engine breaking for most of those corners. But I will gently use (in that case front mostly) my brakes too to get the tail light to go for anyone behind me to see. I do remember actually using my front break for one or two, like that 25 hairpin.

[bluninja]

I seem to use my engine braking a fair bit/changing down a gear, depending on how sharp the corner is... my brakes are so shit house I'm not scared to use them if/when I have to but hate to rely on them to slow me down esp on a sharp corner cause they're so SHIT. I wonder how much better the brakes are on other bikes I hear my bike not so great.

So do you go all the way down to first for an emergency stop?

When I was a learner I was told egines are much more expensive to replace than brake pads. Use brakes to slow you down and select the right gear to drive on with.

Remember "Slow in Fast out"? Finish braking before the corner...if you are too slow you just get to accelerate faster on the way out...if you are too fast and the corner tightens then you will develop tight buttocks and start wearing brown undies.

[Gremlin]

Cornering technique is something else hotly debated. I am always open to modifying my riding style to make it better and safer. It was pointed out to me that I was taking a bit much of an inside line (which is something I am aware I need to work on) however I think taking a wide outside line on a left corner is also unsafe. It leaves you in the head-on danger zone for too much of the corner. If a car cuts the corner you are doomed. I understand that taking a tight inside line is no good if the corner tightens on you as you don't have to room to maneuver. (we were going slow enough that that wasn't an issue, but if we were going faster it might have been) I started using the middle (between the car tracks) on the lefts, and felt that was the best of both worlds. I also began to take rights wider, which actually felt better (long sweeping rights have always been my bane).

In advanced riding, positioning is a corner stone. Going into a right hander you are on the left side of the lane, and vice versa for a left hander.

While in left handers it puts you closer to the centre line (and corner cutters), you are increasing your visibility around the corner, and also oncoming vehicles will see you sooner. Now, this might not stop the corner cutter (but it gets a lot changing their line quick smart) but it also gives you options and time. It's very easy to dive into the corner from the outside position when you see an oncoming car, giving yourself more room. The corner is only apexed (if it's apexed) once the exit is sited.

As for reasoning the middle is better, the point is moot. In the middle there is a higher chance of moss and debris, while in the wheel tracks it could be worn. I've even had it where the centre was more worn than the wheel tracks, as they had been scraped to get rid of the bleed. Naturally, the single most important thing is safety, so your position could be dictated by the road surface.

It's not something I would get newbies doing right away, as they need to get bike handling down first... but there you go.

[Maha]

inside line - (racing line) being tight to the inside of the corner, reduces the lean required, but limits options if the corner changes. On the way back I was taking it easy over the mountain as I was worried about that rear tyre. It's booked in for Saturday, though maybe I should take a picture to make all those finger wavers frown at me!

I mostly did my corners at the same speed as the person infront of me, though I have been experimenting with a little extra break pre-corner so I can use more gas through/coming out of the corner without running up the next guys ass

Thing with that is... entering a corner to soon will ensure that your exit line will be to wide, as you progress and get quicker, this will become apparent.
Its a habit that should be looked at early on and probably corrected. One of the best riders I have ever followed is MSTRS from Napier.
But you're right, the speeds we were doing at the weekend, it didn't matter.
Look at the quicker group...that whole slow slow quick quick slow foxtrot riding, and we were cruising at a constant speed arriving a few minutes after them...

How we ride is very much a personal thing, if we all rode the same way, there would be bugger all to talk about.
Overall, myself (and everyone else it would seem) was very happy with everyone else on the ride.
The few 'Ride Rules' I have are there for the safety reasons, if anything (god forbid) was to go pear shaped, the finger would get pointed me as the ride organiser.
We are not mentors, nor do we set out to ''mentor'' riders. However, there is enough experience (within the group normally) to offer some good and stern advice.

[Grashopper]

Thing with that is... entering a corner to soon will ensure that your exit line will be to wide

Thank you for that explanation Mark. That explains how I ended up on the bobbly bits in a corner at the Taupo track.

Look at the quicker group...that whole slow slow quick quick slow foxtrot riding, and we were cruising at a constant speed arriving a few minutes after them...

It helped that we organised a lorry to slow them down as they arrived at the fun bits

[nadroj]

However, there is enough experience (within the group normally) to offer some good and stern advice.

Mom gave me some advice........

[Maha]

Mom gave me some advice........

........and, did you take it?...

[nadroj]

........and, did you take it?...

Very personally!

[FJRider]

Sheep? Bah! It's the Spanish inquisition I worry about

and for your information my eyesight is that good....I can see through truck and trailer units and round sharp bends

The staggered formation is good with experienced riders ... and with groups of motorcycles well capable of sitting on or above the speed limit. (on most roads) And keeping the same lines on the road.

On bikes less capable (and riders less experienced) ... speeds below the speed limit .... it's not so great. At some stage ... other vehicles will want past (with varying degrees of urgency). A group of bikes staggered along the road at less than the normal flow of traffic becomes an effective moving road block (in official terms, this is impeding the normal flow of traffic and liable for a ticket).

Other motorists that want to travel faster than the group ... will sometimes pass one or two riders (or more), before waiting until it is clear enough to pass (or not ... and pass anyway). And usually tailgating the one they want past. With some ... patience is not "evident". About one in five will show signs of "anger" ... and about one in five of those "angry" ones ... will be downright dangerous.

And no matter how good your eyesight is ... it wont save you from them.

Sticking hard and fast to instructions to keep the staggered formation ... with a two second spacing (or less) at 95 km/hr (or less) means road rage is not only possible ... it's inevitable. I bet some of the group has experienced it already. And probably claiming ... "It wasn't my fault" ...

[FJRider]

I seem to use my engine braking a fair bit/changing down a gear, depending on how sharp the corner is... my brakes are so shit house I'm not scared to use them if/when I have to but hate to rely on them to slow me down esp on a sharp corner cause they're so SHIT. I wonder how much better the brakes are on other bikes I hear my bike not so great.

There is no real reason why you shouldn't use engine braking. With just coming off the throttle means less wear on the brake pads and effective slowing. And it wont hurt the engine. And less chance of locking up the wheels if it is still in gear (almost like ABS) .... even under emergency braking using front and rear brakes. Leave it IN gear until you are almost stopped .... then clutch in until just before you do stop ... If stopping IS needed. It IS effective and well worth practicing. Then you can click down to neutral,(or as you are still rolling) or 1st, 2nd, or 3rd gear if your speed allows) if you want to (can ???) continue.

The more times you use the brakes ... the more fuel you waste. And the more often you replace the pads. (Check out the price of a set)

[bluninja]

The staggered formation is good with experienced riders ... and with groups of motorcycles well capable of sitting on or above the speed limit. (on most roads) And keeping the same lines on the road.

On bikes less capable (and riders less experienced) ... speeds below the speed limit .... it's not so great. At some stage ... other vehicles will want past (with varying degrees of urgency). A group of bikes staggered along the road at less than the normal flow of traffic becomes an effective moving road block (in official terms, this is impeding the normal flow of traffic and liable for a ticket).

Other motorists that want to travel faster than the group ... will sometimes pass one or two riders (or more), before waiting until it is clear enough to pass (or not ... and pass anyway). And usually tailgating the one they want past. With some ... patience is not "evident". About one in five will show signs of "anger" ... and about one in five of those "angry" ones ... will be downright dangerous.

And no matter how good your eyesight is ... it wont save you from them.

Sticking hard and fast to instructions to keep the staggered formation ... with a two second spacing (or less) at 95 km/hr (or less) means road rage is not only possible ... it's inevitable. I bet some of the group has experienced it already. And probably claiming ... "It wasn't my fault" ...

I'm now not sure what point you are trying to make.
First it was "don't do staggered, keep the 2 second rule" now it's "sticking to a zigzag with a 2 second rule is dangerous cos it pisses other road users off when you are doing 95 kmh or less". The ride states that people should be capable of riding at open road speeds...no 95 kmh limit...you made that up.

As for eyesight saving me from angry drivers, presumably behind me...here's a clue...I use my eyes to look in the MIRRORS. I observe their closing speed and how close to me (or other road users behind me) they get and plan how I will deal with them when they move from potential hazard to hazard.

Do you want me to send you a short ruler to measure your dick length ?

[Maha]

*: Each Group Leader will control the group speed (80-100)
:There Will Be No Passing Within Each Group
:The Use Of Mirrors is Paramount in a Group Ride Situation, Please use Them…Always
:Watch Your Following Distances With The Bike In Front, That Person is Your Friend.
:Please try and stay within 5-6 bike lengths with the bike in front of you.
:Staggered Formation Where Possible (no single file on the straight bits)
:If a car is bothering you in any way, indicate left and slow (where it’s safe to do so) and wave them passed.
:But ultimately, have a way cool time.

*The speed of group one is up to the leader of that group.

The staggered formation is good with experienced riders ... and with groups of motorcycles well capable of sitting on or above the speed limit. (on most roads) And keeping the same lines on the road.

On bikes less capable (and riders less experienced) ... speeds below the speed limit .... it's not so great. At some stage ... other vehicles will want past (with varying degrees of urgency). A group of bikes staggered along the road at less than the normal flow of traffic becomes an effective moving road block (in official terms, this is impeding the normal flow of traffic and liable for a ticket).

Other motorists that want to travel faster than the group ... will sometimes pass one or two riders (or more), before waiting until it is clear enough to pass (or not ... and pass anyway). And usually tailgating the one they want past. With some ... patience is not "evident". About one in five will show signs of "anger" ... and about one in five of those "angry" ones ... will be downright dangerous.

And no matter how good your eyesight is ... it wont save you from them.

[B]Sticking hard and fast to instructions to keep the staggered formation ... with a two second spacing (or less) at 95 km/hr (or less) means road rage is not only possible ... it's inevitable[/B]. I bet some of the group has experienced it already. And probably claiming ... "It wasn't my fault" ...

Did ya miss the part on what to do when that situation arises Trev?
Even when a slower rider is on thier own, and a car can't pass, the ''one in five that will show signs of anger'' will still do so...IE: I do when I am trapped behind a campervan while driving the car.
I have to actually see the 'slow and wave them pass' happen (maybe it has, I dont know) and the other point on ''mirror use'' assists in this matter. All I can do is spell it out and hope it gets taken on board and implimented were needed.

[FJRider]

I'm now not sure what point you are trying to make.
First it was "don't do staggered, keep the 2 second rule" now it's "sticking to a zigzag with a 2 second rule is dangerous cos it pisses other road users off when you are doing 95 kmh or less". The ride states that people should be capable of riding at open road speeds...no 95 kmh limit...you made that up.

Aside from the fact I never said there was a 95 km LIMIT ... I stated it was often the limited ability (of some) to keep at 100 km/hr. As I said in an earlier post ... the only thing safer than a two second gap is a three second gap. Riding staggered limits lines through corners. (or they slow more in the corners)

As for eyesight saving me from angry drivers, presumably behind me...here's a clue...I use my eyes to look in the MIRRORS. I observe their closing speed and how close to me (or other road users behind me) they get and plan how I will deal with them when they move from potential hazard to hazard.

Your eys wont tell you always what they're going to do next.

Do you want me to send you a short ruler to measure your dick length ?

It will need to be bigger than YOUR two inch one ...