UK - Slave work schemes

[GrayWolf]

There was a TV show in the UK - Jamies Olivers Dream School. Not sure if you´ve seen it - the idea behind the show was to prove that it wasn't the kids fault they weren't learning at school it was the teachers. He took a bunch of kids who were about to leave school with no qualifications hand picked some world famous experts in every field, gave them laptops, field trips and tried to get them interested in something - anything. It was a disaster - he was tearing his hair out by the end of the series. 90% of the kids still couldnt give a shit.

I can still remember from my schooldays our Chemistry teacher giving us a roasting for being ungrateful little shits for goofing around in class, he had been teaching kids from some deprived/third world country at our school during the holidays. He struggled to get out the classroom at the end of the lesson because they were so keen to get every scrap of knowledge out of him.

yes and there was another couple of 'shows' that preceded that.. One was 'Bad boy's army' .. they got volunteer 18-22yr old's on the brink of going to jail, who agreed to do the 'boot camp' instead... Basically took them back to 1950's Conscription style Army training, complete with Seargent major's etc with the 'Correct Attitude' to suit the era,,,,
However, following from that was a show where they gave a mixed sex group of students who by today's Exam standards, were going to score highly, and gave them the O level papers that were done through the 50- 70's.. They all failed miserably.
So the second series was That'll learn em.. they took the group back to 1950/60's style teaching methods (excluding corporal punishment) even with the teacher attitute that kids today would be totally shocked with, and us old fuckers remember well, stood in front of the class and berated for getting it wrong, etc etc....
Interestingly enough? At the end of 3 months, they all passed the O level, and it seems they all excelled to an amazing level in todays exam regime.
We were NEVER allowed leeway on spelling, punctuation, grammar... Even if the exam was History, or, Geography, you got marked down for bad spelling etc.
the 50's to late 60/early 70's were called the 'golden age' of education, and it certainly showed we learnt more and at a higher standard.
But today? it's the kids who run the class, must'nt inhibit their character, must'nt control them, they'll learn self control as they get older...... Funny that, how they all suddenly get mature, grow up, and ???? Why do place's like Macca's etc do so well? Because they dont have domestic skills, cant be bothered, too fckn lazy????

[Brian d marge]

Stephen,
how the fuck did a financial diatribe get associated to what I said? I never mentioned the various financial meanderings of the USA et al, I/we were discussing behaviour of people either in 'dole' situation, or in general. The shenanigans of Nixon/Clinton have no bearing on twats like Sue Bradford and others who have their heads buried up their arses, and want to strip any method of controlling kids/people/crims etc then of course will sit and whinge while the 'unruly mob' they have created burns Rome.

That daitribe .has more bearing on how and why we are in "this mess" than you will ever know or want to understand one suspects..

I gave you the hows and why of the path we took to get here .

Stephen

[mashman]

That daitribe .has more bearing on how and why we are in "this mess" than you will ever know or want to understand one suspects..

I gave you the hows and why of the path we took to get here .

Stephen

Surely not ... it's the people that are the problem, not the system

[GrayWolf]

That daitribe .has more bearing on how and why we are in "this mess" than you will ever know or want to understand one suspects..

I gave you the hows and why of the path we took to get here .

Stephen

Surely not ... it's the people that are the problem, not the system

the world/empires have always revolved around commerce and trade, History has always shown one 'empire' rises, falls, another takes it's place. The human race just does'nt learn from the past... Rome created the biggest empire pre 'Industry'. Portugal, Spain, The Dutch, England, French all went around conquering various countries in the 14-1600's. Hitler never learnt from Bonapart's folly of invading Russia as a second front. Bonapart didnt learn from??? The Roman's tried to be 'world Police', England did the same in the days of Empire, now the USA has taken up the mantle, and still hasnt learnt from England and Rome or Vietnam/Korea/Afghanistan and now Iraq.
If you read the general history of Rome, they gave away bread to the masses, who became the 'Mob' would spend up to 100 days at times sitting in the Arena watching the Games. They didnt need to 'work' they ruled the world. yet Rome was built on discipline and rule. We have now dissolved much of that 'discipline' we had, the rules are now so lax, for christs sake I could Murder someone and be out on Parole in 7 years!
We are creating a 'Mob' and as usual the human race has it's historical head buried in the sand.... Finance may be a 'driving force' but finance doesnt pass 'anti smacking' laws...

[Brian d marge]

the world/empires have always revolved around commerce and trade, History has always shown one 'empire' rises, falls, another takes it's place. The human race just does'nt learn from the past... Rome created the biggest empire pre 'Industry'. Portugal, Spain, The Dutch, England, French all went around conquering various countries in the 14-1600's. Hitler never learnt from Bonapart's folly of invading Russia as a second front. Bonapart didnt learn from??? The Roman's tried to be 'world Police', England did the same in the days of Empire, now the USA has taken up the mantle, and still hasnt learnt from England and Rome or Vietnam/Korea/Afghanistan and now Iraq.
If you read the general history of Rome, they gave away bread to the masses, who became the 'Mob' would spend up to 100 days at times sitting in the Arena watching the Games. They didnt need to 'work' they ruled the world. yet Rome was built on discipline and rule. We have now dissolved much of that 'discipline' we had, the rules are now so lax, for christs sake I could Murder someone and be out on Parole in 7 years!
We are creating a 'Mob' and as usual the human race has it's historical head buried in the sand.... Finance may be a 'driving force' but finance doesnt pass 'anti smacking' laws...

Its called the (3?) ages of an empire , they last approx 500 years , bye bye america !

No finance doesnt itself pass anti smaking laws , but the product of finance does , ( five families )


Stephen

[mashman]

the world/empires have always revolved around commerce and trade, History has always shown one 'empire' rises, falls, another takes it's place. The human race just does'nt learn from the past... Rome created the biggest empire pre 'Industry'. Portugal, Spain, The Dutch, England, French all went around conquering various countries in the 14-1600's. Hitler never learnt from Bonapart's folly of invading Russia as a second front. Bonapart didnt learn from??? The Roman's tried to be 'world Police', England did the same in the days of Empire, now the USA has taken up the mantle, and still hasnt learnt from England and Rome or Vietnam/Korea/Afghanistan and now Iraq.
If you read the general history of Rome, they gave away bread to the masses, who became the 'Mob' would spend up to 100 days at times sitting in the Arena watching the Games. They didnt need to 'work' they ruled the world. yet Rome was built on discipline and rule. We have now dissolved much of that 'discipline' we had, the rules are now so lax, for christs sake I could Murder someone and be out on Parole in 7 years!
We are creating a 'Mob' and as usual the human race has it's historical head buried in the sand.... Finance may be a 'driving force' but finance doesnt pass 'anti smacking' laws...

I agree with most of that... however we have moved on in terms of population. Human beings should be the driving force... anything that is promoted about human beings should be removed from the equation as it's likely doing more harm than good... and commerce has been doing that for millenia. Getting rid of the financial system would go a loooooooooong way towards breaking away from the cyclic "traditions" that have taken us to where we are today. Millions of people understand that. Move over and make way for us as it's time to evolve properly for a change.

[Ocean1]

I agree with most of that... however we have moved on in terms of population. Human beings should be the driving force... anything that is promoted about human beings should be removed from the equation as it's likely doing more harm than good... and commerce has been doing that for millenia. Getting rid of the financial system would go a loooooooooong way towards breaking away from the cyclic "traditions" that have taken us to where we are today. Millions of people understand that. Move over and make way for us as it's time to evolve properly for a change.

Oh yeah, brilliant, remove any means of quantifying the value of individual productivity and all of the dole bludgers will be worth as much as anyone else. Chenius!

[mashman]

Oh yeah, brilliant, remove any means of quantifying the value of individual productivity and all of the dole bludgers will be worth as much as anyone else. Chenius!

Why would you need to quantify individual productivity if everything that needs to be done is getting done? Much better than quantifying the value of a job based on the productivity it is perceived to represent... and there would be no dole bludgers, just bludgers... and why bother wasting time and energy on them when everything that needs to be done is getting done? They become irrelevant and who knows, they may actually pout something in or indeed given that the education system becomes an entirely different entity, perhaps kids'll learn what their parents fail to "teach" them and over time they'll become what will be perceived as a valued member of society... ommmmmmmmm mutha fucka.

[Ocean1]

Why would you need to quantify individual productivity if everything that needs to be done is getting done?

What makes you think that everything that needs to be done would be done if you don't value individual productivity?

[mashman]

What makes you think that everything that needs to be done would be done if you don't value individual productivity?

Call it a hunch ... nah, people currently do crap jobs for crap pay, plenty of innovators do it for the love of it and not the money, it may be as simple as being happy with next to no crime, it could be that people value time over money etc... and the way to enjoy that lifestyle would be for as many as possible to contribute. What makes you so sure that nothing would be done if you don't value individual productivity? Would you down tools because you wouldn't consider that your contribution was being fairly valued?

[Ocean1]

Would you down tools because you wouldn't consider that your contribution was being fairly valued?

Yes. I'd invite people to join me in a radical new venture where people are paid according to the value of their contribution, that way I'd be responsible for my own decisions and outcomes. Who knows, maybe I'd decide to fuck around all day, but I'd do so knowing I'd be paid accordingly.

[blue rider]

[mashman]

Yes. I'd invite people to join me in a radical new venture where people are paid according to the value of their contribution, that way I'd be responsible for my own decisions and outcomes. Who knows, maybe I'd decide to fuck around all day, but I'd do so knowing I'd be paid accordingly.

Who's going to earn the most? Why would not having money remove your responsibility for what you do in your life?

[Ocean1]

Who's going to earn the most? Why would not having money remove your responsibility for what you do in your life?

Those that produce the most value.

Money's just a measure of value, it's not having consequences that removes responsibility for what you do.

[mashman]

Those that produce the most value.

Money's just a measure of value, it's not having consequences that removes responsibility for what you do.

So you're ok with that if that means that you aren't earning enough to be able to fuck around by taking a day off?

There are laws for every bad thing in the world, including fraud, embezzlement, insider trading etc... yet these things still happen. It would seem that your statement isn't really true. Money is destroying the human race, it limits innovation, creates silo'd research, drives success at any cost etc... it does more damage than good.