Should we give 500 Production Racing a try?

[SWERVE]

There you see................. Mr Gassit was just bored and wanted some fun.......... notice he hasnt re-posted yet
Just sitting back watching the entertainment. Just confirmed by many thoughts...there are already too many classes/sub classes for the rider base... so people just chose when and where to race which just depletes class nunbers across the board.

[scracha]

The Honda Dealer I was talking to brought up the idea (Kevin C at City Honda), and he said many of the dealers are keen.

If Honda (or a shedload of Dealers) offer them at a VERY discounted purchase/lease price or throw some money into the kitty then I reckon some riders and clubs might be interested. Otherwise, why would anyone bother?

[slowpoke]

The average club racer should be in a race class - not Clubmans! Nationals is a showcase opportunity that gets squandered over and over. Why run the 'dip your toes in racing and see if you like it' class at Nationals. It's a Club level class.
If you want to open it up to average club racer find another class - Posties, F1, F2 for instance. I would have run Posties if I thought they could find their way south of Hampton. Seems they have lost their map recently. VMCC choose to run F1/F2 for Nationals.

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.

Clubman's at Club level is as you say all about novices and "dip your toes" types and should be called what it is: Novice class. Clubman's at National's events is a different beast altogether, and I reckon the Clubman term is a much better description for this type of "catch all" class.

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.

[tail_end_charlie]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.

Clubman's at Club level is as you say all about novices and "dip your toes" types and should be called what it is: Novice class. Clubman's at National's events is a different beast altogether, and I reckon the Clubman term is a much better description for this type of "catch all" class.

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.

^What he said^

[Skunk]

Posties? Why limit it? And why limit it to a class that already has standalone events that exclude the average club bike? It's a club event, a showcase of the club as a whole, so my tuppeny worth would be to run a support class that caters for as many club members as possible, not just a chosen few.

The paperwork is one reason to limit it to existing classes. Vic Club already has the rules for F1 and F2 written. Posties have the rules in the rulebook.
Field size is the next reason. Auckland can get a good fields of Posties. I'm hoping we can get a good field of F1/F2 (not looking good yet with zero entries!).
Next thing to consider is speed difference on track. Last thing we would want to do is take entries and then tell riders they didn't qualify.

[Str8 Jacket]

Maybe time for a class for non riders?

How's about those of us that are injured?

However we wold need to be aware of age, weight and physical differences of the presumed competitors and you may need to split the grids to accomodate this.

[roogazza]

I think we're talking at cross purposes here mate. F1/F2 allows a large proportion of average club racers (BEAR's, Posties, F1, F2) to get some track time, which sounds great to me.

That sounds pretty good to me Spud, Clubman class for club racers makes sense.
Time to cull, the too many classes we have for the number of racers.
500 Production ! nah ! we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

[budda]

That sounds pretty good to me Spud, Clubman class for club racers makes sense.
Time to cull, the too many classes we have for the number of racers.
500 Production ! nah ! we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

We have NO Champs Classes for learners - each and every Nationals Class is a valid stand-alone Championship for those who choose to compete in it ........

One of the major reasons we have low Competitor numbers in Champs races is this bullshit mindset that only SuperBikes is valid, and only 600's are a real apprenticeship for them. Fine if you've got Genuine aspirations of World Dominance - but most of us havent !

Riders DONT choose to ride in those two for A/ personal reasons, B/ budgetary constraints, C/ no interest in any Class other their current one, D/ dont want to be denigrated for being "slow" up against the "fast" guys

The only one of the above we all as riders can do anything about is D ........ ENCOURAGE guys with suitable bikes to get out with the Nats guys and have a go, dont put them off !!!!!

[roogazza]

We have NO Champs Classes for learners - each and every Nationals Class is a valid stand-alone Championship for those who choose to compete in it ........

One of the major reasons we have low Competitor numbers in Champs races is this bullshit mindset that only SuperBikes is valid, and only 600's are a real apprenticeship for them. Fine if you've got Genuine aspirations of World Dominance - but most of us havent !

Riders DONT choose to ride in those two for A/ personal reasons, B/ budgetary constraints, C/ no interest in any Class other their current one, D/ dont want to be denigrated for being "slow" up against the "fast" guys

The only one of the above we all as riders can do anything about is D ........ ENCOURAGE guys with suitable bikes to get out with the Nats guys and have a go, dont put them off !!!!!

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least. We need depth and talent first. No ? Even now at 64 I wouldn't hesitate to enter any level I chose or If I had the energy to be bothered.

[RobGassit]

At the risk of getting my arse kicked for posting on my own thread, can I add the following...

A,,, 500's are emerging in other countries as a way forward for developing riders.
B,,, The MNZ Roadrace Commissioner hinted last year that Protwins may get the chop.
C,,, Protwins,( And I'm a fan) only runs 2 manufacturers but is dominated by the SV650 just as the 250 Ninja does in 250 Proddy.( And dare I say it the GSXR in Supers) Riders gravitate to the most suitable weapon for the task, so you could have 6 different makes but history shows one make will carry more numbers. I don't see this as a problem.
D,,, 500's will be as easy to run for joe average as the 250's and a stepping stone to faster and more expensive kit if that is desired.
E,,, Fat buggers can run a 500 without breaking the frame.
F,,, 500's don't have to be a National Class.
G,,, Could they run split grid with the 250's?
H,,, I suspect Billy has some new class ideas up his sleeve anyway,,( 848 anyone)
And finally I don't believe adding a new class that would run on track within another class necessarily weakons other classes. It strikes me there just may be some couch potatoes out there that would consider running a 500 that just needed gas and tyres. Mobil 98 and Shinkos..

[Deano]

we already have pro twins for learners and that's been a bit of a flop.

Learners?

What about those who's budget constrains them to this sort of class?

Admittedly numbers have not been great in past years but there are just as many pro twins as superlites this year Gaz. Who knows what next year might bring.

[Billy]

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least. We need depth and talent first. No ? Even now at 64 I wouldn't hesitate to enter any level I chose or If I had the energy to be bothered.

Yea,I gotta admit it was the same for me,Really only did the street meets,Porrirua,Gracefeild and Onekawa,With the odd car/bike meeting at Levin,I can't honestly say I even remember the Nationals existing back then,But they obviously did cause one of the guys I used to knock around with back then was the ex 250 GP champ from the 60s.

Different culture nowadays tho,All the same while the thought of the 500 class might have been ok 3 years ago,It would just be another also ran class if introduced now and some other class would end up losing numbers

[quickbuck]

E,,, Fat buggers can run a 500 without breaking the frame.

What you mean to say, bigger people can ride them against smaller people without a huge disparity in power to weight ratio.... Not to mention upsetting the bike with the mass shift....

[budda]

I must be a rare beast in that Nationals do nothing for me, as in I had no interest in chasing a title. We're talking many years ago here.
Most of the time I had mates say this is a points race, my answer to that was so what ! Just another race to me.
By all means encourage people to get out there, but this holy grail of Nationals is not that important to me at least.

Thats my point - there is exactly nothing to stop people voting with their wallet and running the Honda's NOW - why reinvent the whole thing for NO gain ?

The National Champs are a vital element in our Sport, but they are NOT the be all & end all ..... far from it. Club level racing for FUN is where the Champs contenders came from.

Very few of them would admit to not enjoying what they do, even the Demi-Gods of MotoGP and WSBK dice with each other because they want to BEAT the man, NOT just because there's a contingency cheque waiting

[jellywrestler]

A,,, 500's are emerging in other countries as a way forward for developing riders.

so's moto 3 250 4 strokes but we ain't got any on the track here yet competing (yep Steveyb i know your's will be on track in a few days...)