"Restorative justice"

**mashman** · 15th March 2013, 20:16

Originally Posted by Smifffy

The consequences should just be such that the offender respects others' rights in future.

I'm hoping that that will be the case too. But when sorry for a first pretty minor offense isn't enough, what's next?

**Smifffy** · 15th March 2013, 20:16

Originally Posted by mashman

And he thought he had gotten away with it. He hadn't. Somewhere along the lines someone has believed him and given him a second chance. T'would seem that some fuckers just don't believe in second chances. And over a phone of all things.

Strange. We were having this convo at work the other day, re: second chances. A couple of guys who have done some heinous shit (TM) got an awesome opportunity. A couple of others that have done awesome things got to miss out.

Great for people that get second chances, but what about the people that make the most of their first chance, get the bit between their teeth and really make a go of it? Why should they miss out just because some other loser needs a second, third, fourth chance?

Look deep, deep into this. Do you really believe that this is the first time the person has done this type of thing?

**PrincessBandit** · 15th March 2013, 20:18

Originally Posted by yungatart

Not just tertiary institutions, the school I work in has introduced it this year as well.
It does my head in.
Bring back the cane...or give me a taser! PC BS

Originally Posted by Virago

Yeah, I'm aware that this has been going on in schools for a while. Theft or violence will be dealt with by a semi-believable apology, which is then rewarded with lots of praise for "putting things right".

I'm also aware that the approach is often used in the tertiary sector when dealing with student hi-jinks, to keep the students out of court - but usually only for low-impact (victimless) crimes.

I'm appalled that the university is taking a "say sorry and shake hands" approach to this, and refusing to even acknowledge the victim. Theft as a servant is serious, especially for those in such a position of trust.

Yep, very common. The pseudo apology to the victim is rampant in schools as well as "family conferences" where perps apologise for their behaviour to their victims and promise to never never never be naughty again.

TPTB feel it is more constructive to have dialogue (the fact that very little of it is genuine or meaningful is irrelevant) because this 'proves' that the system leaves everyone happy all round. People who are not happy about the whole thing get swept under the carpet.

**mashman** · 15th March 2013, 20:21

Originally Posted by bogan

T'would seem that most of us think the victim should be the one to decide if he gets a second chance or not. It shouldn't be the guy the perp might be giving the sly handy-j to after hours.

Well most of you are also carrying pitch forks and torches. Doesn't mean you're showing any common sense.

**Ocean1** · 15th March 2013, 20:24

Originally Posted by mashman

Well most of you are also carrying pitch forks and torches. Doesn't mean you're showing any common sense.

Makes sense to me. And it sounds like the call for more effective consequences is pretty common.

Looks like you're wrong. Again.

**Smifffy** · 15th March 2013, 20:25

Originally Posted by mashman

Well most of you are also carrying pitch forks and torches. Doesn't mean you're showing any common sense.

Because a cell phone is one of the essentials of life, and if you don't have one even by stealing it then you are going to die. More important even, than selling it on to buy a loaf of bread.

**bogan** · 15th March 2013, 20:26

Originally Posted by mashman

Well most of you are also carrying pitch forks and torches. Doesn't mean you're showing any common sense.

Yes, but if I'm carrying a pitchfork and a torch, then there'll be no sly handy-j from me (or not one that anybody would want at least), so really, its an honorable thing to carry. Doesn't exclude us from showing some common sense either.

**mashman** · 15th March 2013, 20:28

Originally Posted by Smifffy

Strange. We were having this convo at work the other day, re: second chances. A couple of guys who have done some heinous shit (TM) got an awesome opportunity. A couple of others that have done awesome things got to miss out.

Great for people that get second chances, but what about the people that make the most of their first chance, get the bit between their teeth and really make a go of it? Why should they miss out just because some other loser needs a second, third, fourth chance?

Look deep, deep into this. Do you really believe that this is the first time the person has done this type of thing?

It sucks... and I guess it stems from someone believing that it ain't the self-reliant ones who need to be hand fed as they're highly unlikely to be any trouble to society. But that doesn't make it any less sucky and it makes an unfortunate perverse sense.

You mean that he may have stolen the phone because he wanted an upgrade from the last phone he stole? If that's the case, then fuck him... although it's nice to see the benefit of the doubt for a change. Good people do the odd bad thing ya know.

**PrincessBandit** · 15th March 2013, 20:29

Originally Posted by Smifffy

... More important even, than selling it on to buy a loaf of bread.

Do you hear the people sing, singing the song of angry men...oh hang on, Jean Valjean stole the bread, not the cellphone

**Virago** · 15th March 2013, 20:30

The letter of apology is true to form:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-cLF57CxSgt...0/DSC_0324.jpg

It's all about him - how being caught affects him. No mention or acknowledgement of his effect on the victim.

**James Deuce** · 15th March 2013, 20:30

Originally Posted by 300weatherby

the time has come that we deal with the crims and deadbeats ourselves, the police can't be arsed dealing with crime below rape and murder, .

The first point makes YOU a crim, the second simply isn't true.

May we deal out our citizens vengeance on YOU first for simply thinking of a violent crime, or is that not what you meant?

**Smifffy** · 15th March 2013, 20:31

Originally Posted by mashman

It sucks... and I guess it stems from someone believing that it ain't the self-reliant ones who need to be hand fed as they're highly unlikely to be any trouble to society. But that doesn't make it any less sucky and it makes an unfortunate perverse sense.

You mean that he may have stolen the phone because he wanted an upgrade from the last phone he stole? If that's the case, then fuck him... although it's nice to see the benefit of the doubt for a change. Good people do the odd bad thing ya know.

I'm not talking about being hand fed. I'm talking about a genuine, once in a lifetime, golden opportunity. Given to a couple of people "that deserved a second chance", or maybe they just 'knew' the right people.

**300weatherby** · 15th March 2013, 20:34

Originally Posted by mashman

Well most of you are also carrying pitch forks and torches. Doesn't mean you're showing any common sense.

No pitchforks or torches here, would rather use the gas axe, one thieving finger at a time.........

**mashman** · 15th March 2013, 20:35

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Makes sense to me. And it sounds like the call for more effective consequences is pretty common.

Looks like you're wrong. Again.

Just a different perspective and one less mouth for your hard earned taxes to feed

. Maybe the guy will heed what the potential consequences could have been.

Originally Posted by Smifffy

Because a cell phone is one of the essentials of life, and if you don't have one even by stealing it then you are going to die. More important even, than selling it on to buy a loaf of bread.

it was found and kept. The guy made some stupid decisions. Perhaps he should have stolen another two or 3 and sold them, then he could have afforded his own. I have a felling we're not talking about a criminal mastermind here. I could be wrong though.

Originally Posted by bogan

Yes, but if I'm carrying a pitchfork and a torch, then there'll be no sly handy-j from me (or not one that anybody would want at least), so really, its an honorable thing to carry. Doesn't exclude us from showing some common sense either.

How the fuck do you give a guy with a pitch fork and torch a sly handy-j? You're right, it doesn't... but this is KB, so it does.

**Virago** · 15th March 2013, 20:37

Originally Posted by mashman

Maybe he is genuinely sorry for what he has done. He could have sold it. So I'm going to assume that he probably couldn't afford one and took his chances. Not a nice thing to do like... but it was only a phone.

Give me fucking strength...

Yes, he needed the phone to take lots of lovely photos when he was on holiday in Fiji.

Poor fella...