Baroness Thatcher dies overnight

[Oscar]

My mother passed away two years ago.

Btw. I am still waiting on your response to my erstwhile question. What business are you doing that has profited so much under the current National Policies?

Which question?

"May I ask what you do for a living?"

No.
No you may not, as it isn't germane to my previous statement.
I would be happy digging ditches under Key as it means that Clarke and her mob have gone.

[mashman]

Don't get me wrong I love spending my money and someone else's even more but it all comes down to choice.
When I was in the UK I lived week to week and sometimes day to day but it was my choice to party every night, get shitfaced pass out and do it all the next day. never once did I blame anyone for not having enough money to buy food or electric.

I agree, but even without sky, a car, cigs, boozes etc... there are still people living week to week/day to day. I doubt it's their choice and it ain't exactly easy to get out from under that. Tis a shame that we feel that people living like that is their fault.

No, I tend to react at the same level as the idiots that I'm baiting.

Like I said, you're a twat.

[BoristheBiter]

I agree, but even without sky, a car, cigs, boozes etc... there are still people living week to week/day to day. I doubt it's their choice and it ain't exactly easy to get out from under that. Tis a shame that we feel that people living like that is their fault.

I never blame someone for where they came from only there laziness.

[mashman]

I never blame someone for where they came from only there laziness.

I guess that's another generalisation, but without them the jobs that pay fuck all that the "lazy" do wouldn't get done. We get the society that we're willing to pay for, so I blame us.

[Swoop]

This govt. will go down in the anals of history as one of the worst we have ever endured.

Odd, since we are riding out a global recession with rather comfortable standards compared to other countries. Luckily we are not led by the labourite sect and their Lunatic Fringe friends during these times.


I do, however, agree with your Muldoon comments.

[bluninja]

I guess that's another generalisation, but without them the jobs that pay fuck all that the "lazy" do wouldn't get done. We get the society that we're willing to pay for, so I blame us.

The point is the lazy would rather collect their benefits (if its' not too much trouble) than work hard on a low paid job. I disagree that we get the society that we are willing to pay for. Were it that capitalist, we could sell certain sections of society off like so much toxic loans

[Ocean1]

According to this almost half of the country are living pay to pay... I wouldn't exactly call them well off. All govts, including this one, have their share of the "blame" to take for that scenario.

If there's blame to be had it's with those that spend more money than they've got. And most of those have the head start of a negative tax profile.

I agree, but even without sky, a car, cigs, boozes etc... there are still people living week to week/day to day. I doubt it's their choice and it ain't exactly easy to get out from under that. Tis a shame that we feel that people living like that is their fault.

You doubt it's their choice? It's a shame you feel it's someone else's fault, because it's not.

I never blame someone for where they came from...

...only where they choose to go.

Odd, since we are riding out a global recession with rather comfortable standards compared to other countries. Luckily we are not led by the labourite sect and their Lunatic Fringe friends during these times.

Real luck would mean not having had them completely empty the till before they got slung out.

[BoristheBiter]

I guess that's another generalisation, but without them the jobs that pay fuck all that the "lazy" do wouldn't get done. We get the society that we're willing to pay for, so I blame us.

No and no.

You are either happy with what you have or you're not.
If you aren't and don't do anything about it you only have yourself to blame.

The welfare in this country will help anyone wanting to get ahead, the only problem is it also helps those that don't.

And I blame you.

[mashman]

So you guys are pissed off at those who live off of share income? After all, they do fuck all to "earn" their money and can still claim the dole.

The point is the lazy would rather collect their benefits (if its' not too much trouble) than work hard on a low paid job. I disagree that we get the society that we are willing to pay for. Were it that capitalist, we could sell certain sections of society off like so much toxic loans

Why should anyone work in a low paid job? And there are bound to be unemployed people where there aren't enough jobs (something just about every govt in the world has admitted).

If there's blame to be had it's with those that spend more money than they've got. And most of those have the head start of a negative tax profile.

You doubt it's their choice? It's a shame you feel it's someone else's fault, because it's not.

You mean those who have millions in assets that mysteriously appreciate so they can borrow hundreds of millions against value that doesn't really exist?

It is our fault because we do not provide the society that offers them the ability to climb out of that hole. You said so yourself in the other thread "Anyway, so, the reason they can't afford a 1 pound house is the same reason they don't have a job. No marketable skills.". Not their fault eh. Imagine you are the average employer, what chance do those on the dole etc... have of getting a job that pays "well"?

No and no.

You are either happy with what you have or you're not.
If you aren't and don't do anything about it you only have yourself to blame.

The welfare in this country will help anyone wanting to get ahead, the only problem is it also helps those that don't.

And I blame you.

Ahhhhh, a child of Thatcher. Your argument ignores that there are finite jobs. If even 20% of the "lazy" decided not to be "lazy" and go and earn some qualifications, they'd then come out of uni with a huge debt and potentially put someone else out of a job. All you're doing is trading one person for another and then you'll go on to blame the person that is now on the dole for being "lazy" when they have difficulty getting another job. If everyone lived to your way of thinking the world would be in utter chaos.

[Robert Taylor]

So you guys are pissed off at those who live off of share income? After all, they do fuck all to "earn" their money and can still claim the dole.



Why should anyone work in a low paid job? And there are bound to be unemployed people where there aren't enough jobs (something just about every govt in the world has admitted).



You mean those who have millions in assets that mysteriously appreciate so they can borrow hundreds of millions against value that doesn't really exist?

It is our fault because we do not provide the society that offers them the ability to climb out of that hole. You said so yourself in the other thread "Anyway, so, the reason they can't afford a 1 pound house is the same reason they don't have a job. No marketable skills.". Not their fault eh. Imagine you are the average employer, what chance do those on the dole etc... have of getting a job that pays "well"?



Ahhhhh, a child of Thatcher. Your argument ignores that there are finite jobs. If even 20% of the "lazy" decided not to be "lazy" and go and earn some qualifications, they'd then come out of uni with a huge debt and potentially put someone else out of a job. All you're doing is trading one person for another and then you'll go on to blame the person that is now on the dole for being "lazy" when they have difficulty getting another job. If everyone lived to your way of thinking the world would be in utter chaos.

We are in chaos. Much of that is because Governments ( of all types ) around the world failed to put the brakes on and electorates at large always want ''the sun to be shining''. Why are we where we are at? Oversimplistically, GREED. Endemic at all levels of society. From the blue collar paid up union member who wants shorter hours for more pay ( often unsustainable ) to the CEO with an unrealistically fat salary and huge bonuses. We are all to blame.

[Ocean1]

You mean those who have millions in assets that mysteriously appreciate so they can borrow hundreds of millions against value that doesn't really exist?

No. I mean those who cost the taxpayer more than they contribute.

It is our fault because we do not provide the society that offers them the ability to climb out of that hole. You said so yourself in the other thread "Anyway, so, the reason they can't afford a 1 pound house is the same reason they don't have a job. No marketable skills.". Not their fault eh. Imagine you are the average employer, what chance do those on the dole etc... have of getting a job that pays "well"?

Yeah. It doesn't get any more true the more often you say it. There are plenty of jobs out there in the real world, and they pay up to a little under the value contributed by the amployee. The reason they're not being filled is because those that should be working them aren't actually worth their asking price. And the fault there lies in exactly the same place as the lack of marketable skills: those who didn't get them.

[mashman]

We are in chaos. Much of that is because Governments ( of all types ) around the world failed to put the brakes on and electorates at large always want ''the sun to be shining''. Why are we where we are at? Oversimplistically, GREED. Endemic at all levels of society. From the blue collar paid up union member who wants shorter hours for more pay ( often unsustainable ) to the CEO with an unrealistically fat salary and huge bonuses. We are all to blame.

Agreed... as much as I don't want to agree, not with you, but with the situation and who's to blame, I have to take my share of the blame. Removing the mechanism for the greed would go a long way to redressing the balance, but that seems to be unthinkable for some strange reason.

[mashman]

No. I mean those who cost the taxpayer more than they contribute.

Yeah. It doesn't get any more true the more often you say it. There are plenty of jobs out there in the real world, and they pay up to a little under the value contributed by the amployee. The reason they're not being filled is because those that should be working them aren't actually worth their asking price. And the fault there lies in exactly the same place as the lack of marketable skills: those who didn't get them.

Hmmmmm that's interesting. Some of the banks around the globe did the same and took bailouts. Are you saying that irrespective of the billions that they make each year that they hadn't overspent and cost the tax payer more than they put in?

In which case, get off their backs and let them do what they choose to do. Where's the issue in that? They cost more than they put in? Even those working... in which case pay them more for the jobs.

[BoristheBiter]

Ahhhhh, a child of Thatcher. Your argument ignores that there are finite jobs. If even 20% of the "lazy" decided not to be "lazy" and go and earn some qualifications, they'd then come out of uni with a huge debt and potentially put someone else out of a job. All you're doing is trading one person for another and then you'll go on to blame the person that is now on the dole for being "lazy" when they have difficulty getting another job. If everyone lived to your way of thinking the world would be in utter chaos.

May she rest in peace.

My argument has nothing to do with how many jobs there are, my argument is about bettering yourself and correct use of your income.

Oh and horrendously generalizing.

[mashman]

May she rest in peace.

My argument has nothing to do with how many jobs there are, my argument is about bettering yourself and correct use of your income.

Oh and horrendously generalizing.

How many jobs there are matters in regards to having an affect on how much effort a person will put in to finding a job in many cases.

I'd never do anything like that.