ANZACs and war and stuff

[Katman]

We are also I believe misplaced in putting General Freyberg on a pedestal, his command in Crete was a failure. Allied troops should have repulsed the German paratroop landings. Conversely we dont make enough fuss of Sir Keith Park, a major player in the success of the Battle of Britain.

To be fair Robert there were many failures on Crete, at all levels - including from above Freyberg.

Freyberg was revered more for his love of his troops than for his command capability.

[scumdog]

Fuck me, this thread just proves how fucked this place is.

Fixed for ya!

[Wannabiker]

My grandfather was Boer war (Kings Guard) and WWI (Quartermaster Sergeant, 2 Canterbury Mounted Rifles, Egypt) then NZ Permanent staff on his return to NZ. He died when I was one year old, so didn't get to talk to him much.

Dad was in WW2. RNZE (Engineers) He was in New Caledonia and also Samoa. He did recall a few stories...he was a cook, though I suspect this was not truly accurate. He spoke of raiding the American depot at the wharf, as they had refrigerated containers, with all the luxuries of home, including ice-cream. Meanwhile, the NZ'ers existed on bully beef and rancid butter. The only fresh meat was any animal they could find on the island....

He clearly saw some sights that a person should not see in a normal lifetime. He did have a passionate hatred of the Japanese, having witnessed his friends being tortured at their hands. Their treatment of captors was purely sadistic. (I could be more descriptive, but it is not really appropriate). Dad would suffer dreadful nightmares, until his passing. These were often brought on by the war movies that often used to screen on a weekend afternoon when I was a child. This was more predominant if it was a war movie involving the Japanese. I believe he was a POW for a while. He also suffered from the effects of dengue fever, which he contracted whilst in the islands.

Dad worked for the Ministry of Works in the 60's until his retirement. He was one of the few people in that organisation that had an intimate knowledge of Bailey Bridge construction, a skill he would have no doubt learnt with his time in the Engineers.

I have followed family footsteps, and have now done 25 years in the Army.

[_Shrek_]

Fixed for ya!

you still taken ya meds scummy

[Edbear]

My grandfather was Boer war (Kings Guard) and WWI (Quartermaster Sergeant, 2 Canterbury Mounted Rifles, Egypt) then NZ Permanent staff on his return to NZ. He died when I was one year old, so didn't get to talk to him much.

Dad was in WW2. RNZE (Engineers) He was in New Caledonia and also Samoa. He did recall a few stories...he was a cook, though I suspect this was not truly accurate. He spoke of raiding the American depot at the wharf, as they had refrigerated containers, with all the luxuries of home, including ice-cream. Meanwhile, the NZ'ers existed on bully beef and rancid butter. The only fresh meat was any animal they could find on the island....

He clearly saw some sights that a person should not see in a normal lifetime. He did have a passionate hatred of the Japanese, having witnessed his friends being tortured at their hands. Their treatment of captors was purely sadistic. (I could be more descriptive, but it is not really appropriate). Dad would suffer dreadful nightmares, until his passing. These were often brought on by the war movies that often used to screen on a weekend afternoon when I was a child. This was more predominant if it was a war movie involving the Japanese. I believe he was a POW for a while. He also suffered from the effects of dengue fever, which he contracted whilst in the islands.

Dad worked for the Ministry of Works in the 60's until his retirement. He was one of the few people in that organisation that had an intimate knowledge of Bailey Bridge construction, a skill he would have no doubt learnt with his time in the Engineers.

I have followed family footsteps, and have now done 25 years in the Army.

These stories are what wanted from the thread. How many who have posted their story have had opportunity to do so otherwise? It is about understanding people's points of view and learning about their history.

[Edbear]

We live in a rapidly changing and volatile world, different from those times, where the Nations try desperately to avoid international conflict through negotiation while seeing internal security crumbling and civil violence on the increase destabilising and hamstringing government efforts to make our streets and homes safe.

We won't face the likes of the two wars again as WW3 would be the end of the world. Al Qaeda's publicly stated aim was that no person on Earth would feel safe and that is starting to be felt. Whether directly due to their actions or along with the general rise in anarchy and senseless violence, this is the world our children and grandchildren are growing up in.

The enemy is no longer identifiable such that an army can be sent to repel the invaders. No military nation needs to invade for strategic reasons these days. Resources like timber, water and oil are the reasons now. The Anglo-American World Power has since WW2 been seen as the protector of freedom, but cannot combat internal terrorism and are flat broke to boot.

What would the ANZAC vets think about how the world has changed? What do you think?

[Hinny]

War! That's it right there!

Mealy mouthed little wankers like you start something nasty that you can't finish and then mean and nasty arseholes like me take advantage and beat your brains out for it and then your friends who are real men come and try to take me apart so I get a couple of my mates to see your mates off and the whole thing keeps growing and growing until the fight is taken to it's limit and everything goes to shit and no one knows what the fuck started it and you have either died got sick or moved on to annoying some other fucker for some other entirely unrelated reason!




We never learn from our mistakes, therefore we are destined to repeat them, over and over and over and over .... Ad infinitum!

WW1 Started because Archduke Franz-Ferdinand killed. Fuck he must have been really important. 23,000 men killed in one day in that war.
Turkey became involved because Churchill refused to deliver a warship that the Turks had ordered, and paid for. They had raised the money right down to bring and buy stalls - the whole country behind the effort. Churchill wouldn't give them their ship nor their money back. Bit like the US and Pakistan. Take money for aeroplanes. refuse to supply, don't give money back, try and sell them to NZ instead. No wonder the Pakis are down on the US.
Churchill's involvement in Gallipoli should have seen him against the wall and shot.
Australian and New Zealand forces used as cannon fodder. You'll run out of bullets before we run out of men.
And then he was given another crack in WW2. Decision to bomb civilians worked really well for the Poms...Not. Poor buggers got a taste of their own medicine. Another case of his arrogance. Against the rules of war but hey, let's give it a go.

Vietnam - OMG looks like they are going to become a communist state. Better stop that. Look what the evil gooks have done. Captured one of our warships - the 'Pueblo'. Look here's a spy plane photo of it tied up in a North Vietnamese port. Only it wasn't. That was their 'Pearl Harbour' excuse to get them into a war.

Cambodia - oh yes, Pol Pot and his mates are decimating the population but they are the leaders of that country and there is no one else we can recognise as the leaders of that country so we will continue to recognise them. - Sort of what Muldoon had to say on the subject for years after the horrors of the killing fields etc. had come to light..
No political, let alone military action, needed on our part.

Afhganistan - Failed coup by US funded and trained 'freedom fighters'. George Bush senior's exercise. The records of which his son embargoed for perpetuity.. They had a democratically elected, Socialist govt. Fuck, can't have that. Better get in there and free them people... and whip a little industry in there at the same time. A little US industry. Middle two letters of Industry - US
Bit like what he did in Kuwait. Go and free those people and blow the shit out of their country so the US can go and rebuild it for them later. Virtually bankrupted Kuwait and more than doubled their population. Invaded, or what?
George Bush Jnr's. war - Many say it was to enable the building of an oil pipeline. 911 Dick Cheney's talked about 'Pearl Harbour' moment?
The pipeline deal kind of got usurped by Iran signing a deal to build a competing pipeline along a different route. They then became the bad eggs that needed dealing to.

Iraq - had to go and free those people from the evil dictator - the Butcher of Baghdad. Drop 6oo cruise missiles on Baghdad in one night as an opening salvo to free those people. Free them from their lives! US, Britain and the coalition of the willing helped free 4 million Iraqis from their lives and turned what was the playground of the rich and famous into a hell hole. 30 bombings on the day of the Boston Marathon!

North Korea - to be advised.

Iran - They are a rogue state. They kicked out our man 'the Shah of Iran' and his beautiful wife. - Evil Mullahs.
oops it was a terrible accident that our ship the Vincennes blew that commercial ailiner, Iran Air Flight 655, out of the sky. Since the court has ordered it, here is a large sum of money, but we are not admitting that it was our ship that did it and nor are we going to say sorry.
And that Frigate we sank - totally deserved it.

Oh! now they have a nuclear weapons programme that needs to be stopped.
US spooks say "No they don't and you are not going to blame us for giving you bad intelligence and causing you to go to war like you did with Iraq".
Iran is a modern society with a desperate need/desire for power. Electrical power not electoral power.
It's private agencies and Corporations that are promoting that ... and 'Bebe' the war criminal leader of Israel. Why Obama puts up with him escapes me let alone treat him as a dear friend. He must have hypnotised him or some such.Turned him into a global terrorist as well.
Some argue that he has become worse than GB2. Certainly created a lot of future terrorists in Pakistan with their drone strikes.

So yes John, you are right on the money with your comments.

[jonbuoy]

In the grand scheme things have been pretty peaceful since WW2- just skirmishes and scraps-the threat of Nukes has kept a strange balance. Boston bombings - tragic but I dare say a lot more died on the roads in the US that day. Probably more killed by weapons bought with Bostons IRA fundraising money too.

[oldrider]

In the grand scheme things have been pretty peaceful since WW2- just skirmishes and scraps-the threat of Nukes has kept a strange balance. Boston bombings - tragic but I dare say a lot more died on the roads in the US that day. Probably more killed by weapons bought with Bostons IRA fundraising money too.

The killing and destruction since WW1 and WW2 would dwarf both of those events combined over and over, it's just camouflaged by the political media!

[Oscar]

The killing and destruction since WW1 and WW2 would dwarf both of those events combined over and over, it's just camouflaged by the political media!

Really?

Do you have any figures on that?

[mashman]

The killing and destruction since WW1 and WW2 would dwarf both of those events combined over and over, it's just camouflaged by the political media!

You reckon? WW1 approx 35 million people. WW2 approx 60 million people. List of conflicts.

[jonbuoy]

The killing and destruction since WW1 and WW2 would dwarf both of those events combined over and over, it's just camouflaged by the political media!

Not so sure about that- civil, tribal, ethnic wars were still ongoing even during WW1&WW2 but "international" wars have been fairly localised. Things seem to be getting more peaceful- compared to Russian/US nuclear bombers being on 24 hour standby that is!

[Oscar]

Not so sure about that- civil, tribal, ethnic wars were still ongoing even during WW1&WW2 but "international" wars have been fairly localised. Things seem to be getting more peaceful- compared to Russian/US nuclear bombers being on 24 hour standby that is!

The link that Mashmind provided suggested that a little over 100,000 people died as the result of wars in 2012.
Even if this figure was very conservative, and bearing in mind war is shocking waste of life, it is still encouraging compared with the mayhem of the middle 20th Century,

[oldrider]

Really?

Do you have any figures on that?

No I don't. ... People seem to have it in their minds that "real" war stopped with the conclusion of WW2!

There has been a constant stream of "insignificant" wars all over the world since that time.

The sophistication and killing power of the weaponry available now is colossal in comparison to pre WW2!

When you sum up the total death and destruction of the incremental "minor" conflicts since WW2 it is my "opinion" that it would exceed WW1 and WW2 combined!

The total time spent at war during "peacetime" dwarfs that of WW1 and 2, it's almost continuous, just simply moved around the globe to keep it under control!

WW2 almost got out of control and threatened the welfare of the beneficiaries of war so things had to change!

Like the toothpaste adds of old ... 1/2 an inch on a dry brush, it matters not where you squeeze the tube! (probable a bit too subtle!)

[Hoon]

My Grandfather never talked about the war either. However he did talk to his Army mates and they would drink up a storm at every opportunity. My Grandparents house became a regular hangout for his war buddies and these drinking sessions were common place for my Aunts/Uncles growing up at the time. All my Aunts/Uncles know of the war from my Grandfather is what was overhead during these sessions.

Not talking about the War is more a military thing than a War thing. As a soldier it is hard to explain to non-military people about what you do in the Army - they just don't understand. It's like trying to explain your job in intricate detail to someone who just doesn't have a clue. Now try explaining your job during an actual War to that same person and you can understand why most soldiers don't even try. The only people you can really talk too are other military personel because they understand - you can tell a story and they will laugh whereas a non-military person wouldn't know how to react.

Now the whole going off to fight for your country debate that pops up every year. Hippies, consconscientious objectors, tree huggers are all mortal enemies of the serviceman but I see them as necessary evils, the flip side of the same coin to keep things in balance. If it weren't for these clueless closeminded cowards keeping us in check then we'd be no better off than some military dictatorship. I have no ill feelings against them (although being archnemeses', I exercise my right to refer to them using derrogatory terms whereever possible).