The Vote, 22 May, TV3, 8.30-9.30pm

[scissorhands]

Should soft drugs be legalised? Pretty good panel of ex-spurts, Duncan Garner might roll-up again...





This Month's Debate: Should soft drugs be decriminalised?

Drug use has become a hot topic in recent weeks as communities from Timaru to Manurewa have picketed sellers of legal highs, synthetic products have been banned by government and select committee hearings into a new drugs law have been taking place. Police and medics have warned in recent days that harm caused by synthetics is demanding more of their attention. But around the world the trend is to more liberal drug laws, treating drugs as a health issue rather than a criminal one. This month Colorado and Vermont have become the latest US states to liberalise their drug laws.

So which way should New Zealand go?

This month on The Vote we debate whether New Zealand should decriminalise soft drugs. And by “soft drugs” we mean cannabis and synthetic cannabis. Meet the teams below, then watch the arguments for an against on Wednesday May 22. You vote, you decide....

http://www.3news.co.nz/TVShows/TheVote/Home.aspx

[Hitcher]

In reality there's a discussion that needs to be had before this one. That discussion is about what behaviours generally need to be legislated for -- where the lines in the sand are drawn, and whose role it is to enforce those.

Mind-altering drugs and whether they should be available is only one issue in play here. More importantly is our society that expects others to take care of its issues. That society is doomed unless citizens step up and determine what behaviours in society are acceptable and those that aren't, and then which ones they should take control of and which ones should be left to appointed enforcement agents.

[scissorhands]

Legality of populist substances and legislation of behaviours.
I dont quite get your point?

Alcohol [can] creates poor public/private behaviours.... I'm confused as to what your driving at

[Akzle]

vote for whatever the fuck you like. i'll be too busy taking drugs.

[Akzle]

PS.
that cone is fucking full of seeds. that shit would be like trying to smoke popcorn.

[imdying]

PS.
that cone is fucking full of seeds. that shit would be like trying to smoke popcorn.

Totally man... the only thing they should ban is poor quality dope like that.

Really they should be looking at banning booze... but too many MPs and people that have MPs in their pocket also have shares in booze making operations (hotels/pubs, breweries, wineries) so that will never happen. Given that, sure, legalize that shit... might as well tax the crap out of it, it's being sold regardless.

[scumdog]

Really they should be looking at banning booze...

I'm with you on that one!

[Hitcher]

Legality of populist substances and legislation of behaviours.
I dont quite get your point?

Alcohol [can] creates poor public/private behaviours.... I'm confused as to what your driving at

Acceptable behaviours and the management of those surely need to be resolved first? Once the community has come to terms with that, then it's better equipped to have a discussion about practices that may affect what they have have already agreed to be acceptable. That's not just the use of mind-altering substances and the costs associated with that, its also management and regulation of the supply chain and the cost associated with that.

[imdying]

I'm with you on that one!

It would be like guns though... abusers will still get hold of them; black market price will go up of course.

[scumdog]

It would be like guns though... abusers will still get hold of them; black market price will go up of course.

Sorta like recreational drugs at the moment??

[mashman]

In reality there's a discussion that needs to be had before this one. That discussion is about what behaviours generally need to be legislated for -- where the lines in the sand are drawn, and whose role it is to enforce those.

Mind-altering drugs and whether they should be available is only one issue in play here. More importantly is our society that expects others to take care of its issues. That society is doomed unless citizens step up and determine what behaviours in society are acceptable and those that aren't, and then which ones they should take control of and which ones should be left to appointed enforcement agents.

All behaviours are acceptable where they do not cause physical or mental harm to another person. Having said that, legislation being so open to interpretation then becomes an issue when defining physical or mental harm. It matters not what we ask for, as what can be proven in a court of law is all that matters. And who are society to say, we disapprove of smoking and fatty foods and we are the majority, so you should do as we tell you?

Essentially much better to have a free for all and let the courts do their thing if/when someone is caught?

[imdying]

Sorta like recreational drugs at the moment??

AFAIK the black market price for drugs hasn't moved in 20 years. Recession proof as it were.

[scumdog]

AFAIK the black market price for drugs hasn't moved in 20 years. Recession proof as it were.

Hmm, maybe K2 and similar shit is muscling in on the cannabis demand/prices??

[imdying]

Hmm, maybe K2 and similar shit is muscling in on the cannabis demand/prices??

AFAIK no synthetic products, including synthetic cannabaonids, the abundance of meth, and E or speed before that, or acid before that, has made absolutely no difference to the price of black market cannabis in New Zealand. I'm not a drug dealer, so I couldn't offer an opinion on demand... having said that, AFAIK the vast majority aren't interested in making vast sums of money and only supply their personal network, who aren't 12, and aren't interested in man made chemicals.

I expect your interaction with the market is vastly different though... young adults, unfortunately, do not have access to such suppliers and are thus forced into purchasing poor quality/size product from places like gangs who run tinny houses with no other expectation than to make vast sums of money. As always things like prohibition always hit the most vulnerable areas of society first.

Maybe young adults shouldn't be getting high, but they most definitely will, so why hand them to gangs on a plate?

[scumdog]

.

Maybe young adults shouldn't be getting high, but they most definitely will, so why hand them to gangs on a plate?

Young ones here love K2 etc "cos it's legal and you can buy it anywhere and the cops don't hassle you for having it".

(And they also find it easier to get than booze when underaged)

And it has dropped their consumption of cannabis...