Government hypocrisy

[Genestho]

naaa.... I'm going to give up and live on Akzle's farm, lose the interweb, lose society, and gain a REAL life away from all these pricks

What ever blows your hair back, darlin'!! Real life is what you choose to make of it, where-ever you are/n't......

Doesn't Akzle have the interwebs?
That whole losing society thing's working well, isn't it!!?

[oneofsix]

Yes, but the legislation is about allowing GCSB to assist the police where they have capabilities that the popo lack,

Yeah sure it is, and what's more they just completed an internal review of the alleged illegal spying they did on NZers before the law was changed and decided they did nothing wrong but no-one outside the closed circle gets to see the report, oh and please ignore the fact that they originally reviewed and said their spying on Dot Com was legal because they now admit they made a mistake there.

Now they have the easy solution to this problem http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...ids-report-due. In future just get the GCSB to "assist" the police, then no one will know.

[Winston001]

There are controls and balances on the police .. they work within rules (until they too get caught not doing that) and have to justify everything in court...

True but what if they don't prosecute? What about all the times they bug phones and video potential criminal activity? But find nothing. Never go near the court.

You won't know. Ever.

But the police will nevertheless have observed you, built up information and breached your privacy.

[Oscar]

They decide to spy on someone, then they go and do it. Not so hard really.
The ambiguous bit.
Who was talking about getting a conviction?

Not today, I think it must be their day off... or the stealth tech is finally working.
If that's what's required to have an open mind, then so be it. I'll even lend you my spare iffen ye want to remember what having an open mind was like.

An open mind?
That's pretty funny, coming from someone who rearranges reality to fit their own prejudices.
Whereas Govt oversight of the GCSB is pretty naf, it still exists, so that the actions you speak of would soon become obvious (and recently did become obvious, leading to the recent inquirey by judge Nazor). We’re talking about an agency that’s being bested in public by a fat German computer geek for fuck sake…

[Scuba_Steve]

Spy on whomever they like?
How does that work then?
Would you like to point out which bit of the legislation allows them to do that?
And before you start crapping on about conspiracies and such, think about how hard it would be to get a conviction with illegal surveillance.

Or is it just that there's a black helicopter following you around....?
Best you snug that tinfoil hat down tighter...

Maybee you missed the whole Dotcom thing? & it wasn't even legal for them then... But how many have been charged with their beach/disregard for NZ law???
Also like Dotcom they don't have to use the illegal surveillance in NZ, our Govt is Americas little bitch they will do as ordered.

[Oscar]

Maybee you missed the whole Dotcom thing? & it wasn't even legal for them then... But how many have been charged with their beach/disregard for NZ law???
Also like Dotcom they don't have to use the illegal surveillance in NZ, our Govt is Americas little bitch they will do as ordered.

Er - you missed the point.
They were caught doing something outside their remit, ergo the system works (and they can't spy on anyone they like as Mr. Mushbrain claims).

[mashman]

An open mind?
That's pretty funny, coming from someone who rearranges reality to fit their own prejudices.
Whereas Govt oversight of the GCSB is pretty naf, it still exists, so that the actions you speak of would soon become obvious (and recently did become obvious, leading to the recent inquirey by judge Nazor). We’re talking about an agency that’s being bested in public by a fat German computer geek for fuck sake…

See the following for a further explanation of that which far too many of you don't seem to grasp

Real life is what you choose to make of it, where-ever you are/n't

Oh it's an oversight now . Being fat and German doesn't stop your lawyer from knowing his job though eh... luckily.

[mashman]

(and they can't spy on anyone they like as Mr. Mushbrain claims).

Yes they can. They did. They only got caught because they went after a really really rich guy who could afford a full-time lawyer. You sure I can't interest you in an open mind sir?

[scissorhands]

What ever blows your hair back, darlin'!! Real life is what you choose to make of it, where-ever you are/n't......

Doesn't Akzle have the interwebs?
That whole losing society thing's working well, isn't it!!?

Well maybe not the interweb, [its my encyclopaedia Britannica now]
Akzle wants me to bring bitches, and the only bitches who will follow me are online.

The ghosts of past societies follows me around like a bad smell, whispering crazy shit in my ear: 'you have schizophrenia.....'
I'll make my own society and call it Waco.

[Oscar]

Yes they can. They did. They only got caught because they went after a really really rich guy who could afford a full-time lawyer. You sure I can't interest you in an open mind sir?

Your definition of an "open mind" appears to involve conspiracy and very few facts.
Please explain how the other 81 instances of illegal spying came to light.
Did they all have high priced briefs?

B
You mind appears to be so open that there is a breeze going right through it.

[oneofsix]

Your definition of an "open mind" appears to involve conspiracy and very few facts.
Please explain how the other 81 instances of illegal spying came to light.
Did they all have high priced briefs?

Ironically yes they did, as employed by Mr Dot Com. It all came to light out of that affair.

[mashman]

Your definition of an "open mind" appears to involve conspiracy and very few facts.
Please explain how the other 81 instances of illegal spying came to light.
Did they all have high priced briefs?

B
You mind appears to be so open that there is a breeze going right through it.

That's certainly a part of it, but possibility comes with the territory.
You mean the other 88? those other 88 cases that would have been openly admitted to if there hadn't have been an investigation? Funny that they hadn't been admitted to until KDC's investigation.

That's the wind of change old man.

[MisterD]

Yeah sure it is, and what's more they just completed an internal review of the alleged illegal spying they did on NZers before the law was changed and decided they did nothing wrong but no-one outside the closed circle gets to see the report, oh and please ignore the fact that they originally reviewed and said their spying on Dot Com was legal because they now admit they made a mistake there.

The point being that GCSB have always assisted the police, but it was an unintended consequence of whatever that last bit of legislation was, that doing so became illegal. The spying they did on Dotcom may have been illegal, but it was at the request of the police and if it had been done directly by the police it would have been fine.

[oneofsix]

The point being that GCSB have always assisted the police, but it was an unintended consequence of whatever that last bit of legislation was, that doing so became illegal. The spying they did on Dotcom may have been illegal, but it was at the request of the police and if it had been done directly by the police it would have been fine.

Are you saying that because the govt always secretly spied on its citizens it is OK to continue to do so? The was no "whatever that last bit of legislation", it was illegal and it is wrong.

[MisterD]

Are you saying that because the govt always secretly spied on its citizens it is OK to continue to do so? The was no "whatever that last bit of legislation", it was illegal and it is wrong.

I'm saying that law enforcement agencies should be able to spy on citizens if they get a warrant to do so, and that it's a bit silly to have an agency with all the surveillence bells and whistles unable to support them.