The role of parents in financial education

[Banditbandit]

So it's communism with a lottery twist and free ipads.

Mashman's ideas are no version of Communism that I know of ... nor are they a Dictatorship of the Proletariat ...

[gwigs]

Mashman's ideas are no version of Commubnism that I know of ... nor are they a Dictatorship of the Proletariat ...

With you on that Bandit......

[lakedaemonian]

Hmmm .. So .. 'Merika was trillions and trillions of dollars in surplus when Geo W took over the presidency ...

No it wasn't.

The US was enjoying a brief and limited surplus in the late 90's almost entirely due to the capital gains taxes collected from the artificially created Dot Com bubble, which burst before he took office and the adverse effects of declining capital gains taxes were yet to be felt.

George Bush has a lot to answer for, but your explanation is typical of people looking for simple answers and villians to pretty complex problems.

not long after that 'Merika was trilions and trillions of dollars in deficit .. caused by warmongering and dropping very expensive bombs on other countries and paying soldiers millions and millions of dollars in wages for what is economically non-productive work ... an army at war is a drain not a producer ...

Because of that massive deficit there was a major crisis in the country - with resulting high unemployment etc etc ... eased only slightly by an increase in military personel to serve the war machines ... and the move of production to other countries because of the cheaper labour (notably moving car productinm to Mexico . out of Detroit and other Michigan towns ) .. all causing major unemployment and reducing the inability of the population to pay the moprtgages that banks had thrown at them when there was higher levels of employment .. (what is called the sub-prinme crisis .. but other financial institutiosn were affected to)

What actually happened post 9/11 is the most excessive and completely intentional period of overly cheap credit in human history.

You forgot the part where the collapsed Dot Com bubble that popped BEFORE GW as well as the 9/11 event very early in his first term led to "Be Patriotic, buy sh!t" as well as the property bubble.

It's that out of control and completely unsustainable buying frenzy, supported by really bad fiscal and monetary policy such as promoting home ownership to people who could never afford the monthly nut on a McMansion that led to everyone wanting to flip houses until the game of musical chairs inevitably ended.

With regard to the move of industries to other countrries, Marx says this is inevitable ... as industrialization creates jobs .. which creates wealth .. workers use their money to fund education for the next generation .. and so on ... that's what haopopened here ... as each generation gains more education they want more money ... eventually the employers move their factories to countries with a poorly educated workforce - because they can pay them cheaper wages ... in the country where the factories were once running, wages fall, less money is spent on eduction, healthm, etc etc becasue there us les wealth and lower tax take ... and what was once a first world coutry deteriotes to the status of an under-developed country - while the forner underdeveloped countries become the new rich countriesw .. then the cicle continues ...

It's very long term cycle but you can see it happening now .. jobs have gone from Godzone to Pacific, to China, to Pakistan ... China and the other Asian economies are certainly on the upswing - better standards of living etc etc ... and we are at the beginning of a down swing ...

That enough for you ??

Pakistan is a corrupt economic toilet that is going down the gurgler, albeit a corrupt nuclear armed toilet that will probably threaten to take everyone down with it unless it gets more handouts. Do you know who Afghans unanimously hate? I'll give you one guess and it's not "America" or "Americans". The answer is Pakistan, specifically their government and security forces.

China's banking sector is a horror show. Does anyone remember the late's 80's threat "Japan is going to take over the world", then in 1990 Japan's share market and property bubble popped, and it's been in a slow perpetual decline ever since.

China is like that times 10X, albeit China at least invested in some actual natural resources than insanely overpriced golf courses and Manhattan buildings they sold back for pennies on the dollar.

China is rising and will continue to rise, 200 years ago it was the biggest economy in the world....it's heading back there again someday.......someday after it stumbles and falls from the increasingly difficult problem of trying to prevent a natural and inevitable economic recession that will only get worse the harder you try to prevent it and make such things "obsolete".

Marx should have gone into Marketing........he would have blown Saatchi and Saatchi away.......but as to his understanding of human beings organizing for personal and mutual economic benefit? yeah...nah.

[Banditbandit]

, but your explanation is typical of people looking for simple answers and villians to pretty complex problems.

Yeah .. right there .. you are right .. I'm not an economist I'm just a simple man trying to get by in this fucked up world...

Marx should have gone into Marketing........he would have blown Saatchi and Saatchi away.......but as to his understanding of human beings organizing for personal and mutual economic benefit? yeah...nah.

Yeah - I agree .. and even worse .... apparently he refused to allow his daughter to marry the man she wanted to marry because he was "beneath her station" ... such an armchair revolutionary ..

I'm not a marxist .. I like his analysis - but not his solution ...

[328FTW]

So this free 80ft boat we all share, who washes it and cleans it when everything is said and done? The general laziness and mentality of "somebody else" will mean it either A) Doesn't get done B)You entice someone with a comodity C) You do it yourself but more than likely land up not wanting the other lazys shits messing it up again which leads to the idea of posession again. I honestly cannot see things working as such without some kind of intermediate recognized form of payment. It doesn't matter if it's 70 virgins or the greenback, someone pays.

Money farmers if you can call them as such, the top dog hoarders holding it over the middle class, media, the entire system would easily turn to materials (well to a point they do now). Think withholding huge amounts of coal grinding the power grid to a stop, you could just take it but what if their promise of a better life with greater benifits if you defend their way of life outweighs what this newfound society offers? I mean why settle for getting by when you can be a king amoung men? You get people taking sides, sides that don't agree. While the proportion of those that do such a thing is small you have to think along the lines of people like hitler, manipulation of already underlying hatred and feelings to control masses of people.

Of course I have my own underlying thoughts such as the general population of people are getting more stupid, or a least the exposure of stupid people to the greater world and disconnected ideals they blindly think can be achieved is more than ever. Unless there is a way to fix stupid I'm entirely skeptical any system is going to be a vast improvement. Much less from one angle such as economy, everything from diet to social norms plays a role.

[jonbuoy]

I know what the m stands for. It's a big boat. Meh. Still no reason to take it off him though is it?

If he has one and everyone is equal other people are going to try and take it from him- unless the state is going to protect his property? Otherwise you've made anarchy- in which case the strongest gang/army will control everything. I really don't think you've thought the distribution of assets and recourses through.

[mashman]

So this free 80ft boat we all share, who washes it and cleans it when everything is said and done? The general laziness and mentality of "somebody else" will mean it either A) Doesn't get done B)You entice someone with a comodity C) You do it yourself but more than likely land up not wanting the other lazys shits messing it up again which leads to the idea of posession again. I honestly cannot see things working as such without some kind of intermediate recognized form of payment. It doesn't matter if it's 70 virgins or the greenback, someone pays.

Money farmers if you can call them as such, the top dog hoarders holding it over the middle class, media, the entire system would easily turn to materials (well to a point they do now). Think withholding huge amounts of coal grinding the power grid to a stop, you could just take it but what if their promise of a better life with greater benifits if you defend their way of life outweighs what this newfound society offers? I mean why settle for getting by when you can be a king amoung men? You get people taking sides, sides that don't agree. While the proportion of those that do such a thing is small you have to think along the lines of people like hitler, manipulation of already underlying hatred and feelings to control masses of people.

Of course I have my own underlying thoughts such as the general population of people are getting more stupid, or a least the exposure of stupid people to the greater world and disconnected ideals they blindly think can be achieved is more than ever. Unless there is a way to fix stupid I'm entirely skeptical any system is going to be a vast improvement. Much less from one angle such as economy, everything from diet to social norms plays a role.

How does the boat currently stay clean? And it's 80m, not ft . As simple as you'll not be allowed back on the boat. I'll take you as not being able to see how it would work as a, you wouldn't vote for the idea?

If the system is in place, and those that are in place are so with the intentions of their people at heart, then no Kings amongst men will rise without there being civil war. Everything you highlight happens now. Perhaps it would be more bearable if you didn't have to worry that when you lose your job, your kids are going to be fed, they are going to have healthcare, education etc... irrespective of whether daddy is in work or not. That sounds like progress to me. If the kingmakers rise, the kingmakers rise. Currently the people don't have the resources to fight them off. Within "my" system, they would every opportunity to.

Why do you need to fix stupid? If you're going to address stupid, then have an IQ test and shoot anyone that doesn't make the grade. Being skeptical is no reason not to do anything. I'm skeptical, but I'd like to find out if it will work, because the current system isn't working and on the face of it, as well as quite deep under the covers, it looks like it'll lay much better foundations for future generations to be more positive.

[mashman]

If he has one and everyone is equal other people are going to try and take it from him- unless the state is going to protect his property? Otherwise you've made anarchy- in which case the strongest gang/army will control everything. I really don't think you've thought the distribution of assets and recourses through.

Why are they going to try and take it from him? they could do that now if they wanted to, so what's stopping them? There will be a government, so no anarchy and I would positively expect "tribes", well, community's. Fucksake you guys are hung up on destruction and bad men where they are not the majority. Why does the distribution of assets need to be addressed?

What is it with you people that think society is going to collapse and we're all going to turn into murderous lunatics because we suddenly have equity? It's a pretty fucked up way of looking at the world. What stops us from turning into said same rabble right this minute? Nothing. So why doesn't it happen? Quite simply, the vast majority are peaceful. Why would that change? It's like the cannabis argument. OH NO, if you legalise that shit the world will fall apart in an instant. NEWSFLASH: people smoke the shit all the time and the world hasn't filled up with rabid lunatics, just people scrambling for their share of the money pot. Seriously, why will these bad men take over? How will they coerce the majority of people into accepting them as a dictator? That says more about you than it does about them... I get it. You're afraid of change, you;ve been educated to react that way, because the only way you can handle what I am proposing is to throw monsters in the way. Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

[Ocean1]

Show me evidence of your facts please.

Fiscal prudence, by definition is that which maintains a stable financial outlook.

What is the meaning of fiscal prudence?

"Spending within budget"

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...iscal_prudence

Fucking revolutionary, I know but allow me to simplify it, just for you: Live within your means or bad shit will happen.

[mashman]

This is our future. It's going in no other direction in any western country you care to mention. Do you think it might get worse? Go read the Swedish thread to see what's happening there. Sound familiar? "My" system does away with the majority of those concerns and the man below summed the root of the issue up perfectly, and he may have seen a thing or two in his life on which to base his analysis

I don't think it is capitalism (or any other ism) that creates the instability, it is the financial system it's self that is flawed!

All the current political isms use the same flawed monitory system and they all suffer the same instabilities, what is the common denominator for failure!

Add to that, the fact that the money system "major players" always come out on top! ... Go figure!

They are facts, cold hard facts. Don't fear "my" change, fear theirs.

[mashman]

What is the meaning of fiscal prudence?

"Spending within budget"

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_th...iscal_prudence

Fucking revolutionary, I know but allow me to simplify it, just for you: Live within your means or bad shit will happen.

And if everyone lived within their means what will be the economic fallout given that no one will be borrowing? Every financial system since the dawn of time has been a debt driven system. An unavoidable economic fact.

[jonbuoy]

Why are they going to try and take it from him? they could do that now if they wanted to, so what's stopping them? There will be a government, so no anarchy and I would positively expect "tribes", well, community's. Fucksake you guys are hung up on destruction and bad men where they are not the majority. Why does the distribution of assets need to be addressed?

What is it with you people that think society is going to collapse and we're all going to turn into murderous lunatics because we suddenly have equity? It's a pretty fucked up way of looking at the world. What stops us from turning into said same rabble right this minute? Nothing. So why doesn't it happen? Quite simply, the vast majority are peaceful. Why would that change? It's like the cannabis argument. OH NO, if you legalise that shit the world will fall apart in an instant. NEWSFLASH: people smoke the shit all the time and the world hasn't filled up with rabid lunatics, just people scrambling for their share of the money pot. Seriously, why will these bad men take over? How will they coerce the majority of people into accepting them as a dictator? That says more about you than it does about them... I get it. You're afraid of change, you;ve been educated to react that way, because the only way you can handle what I am proposing is to throw monsters in the way. Baaaaaaaaaaaa.

The only reason it doesn't happen is because of the repercussions from the government and police.

Its not money thats the problem - its human nature - greed, inequality, stupidity and laziness.

Are you seriously saying that you would allow all the megarich to keep their mansions, cars, yachts, private jets? I assume people living on the poverty line will at least be given resources? Will they be given a mansion, a private jet and a Bentley - if not why not? We are all equal after all? Have you ever been to a third world country where the governments don´t have the resources to control gangs? The majority may live in peace - it doesn't take much of a minority to spoil it. Ever rented out a house and seen how people treat property that's not theirs?

[mashman]

Make of this what you will

[jonbuoy]

Make of this what you will

Brilliant - who knows in a few more generations the majority of teenagers will be inspired and aspire to be brilliant scientists, doctors and engineers not football players and their skanky wives.

[Ocean1]

And if everyone lived within their means what will be the economic fallout given that no one will be borrowing?

I told you: bad shit wouldn't happen. You no listen.

Every financial system since the dawn of time has been a debt driven system. An unavoidable economic fact.

Oh please, you're calling Abu the moneylender in the village market an unavoidable debt driven system?

You get your facts confused with what the rest of civilisation call unmitigated and unsubstantiated crap.