My first poll for the NZ public

[bogan]

Bitcoin n00bs can still get a reasonable return at current rates. If you buy a small ASIC for say, NZ$1000 including shipping, tax etc, then at the current difficulty rates you can cash out every month (or more) if you like and enjoy your payout. Or, you could hold on to them for a while. The electricity costs are small and you could pay off the hardware after a few months (you can do the calculations yourself to figure out the hash rate vs current BTC value at the exchanges, then you will know how many BTC you will mine every day at current difficulty levels which gives you an accurate $ amount you're getting at current prices. Then you can see what they're worth in "real" money for reassurance). Like any investment, it's a risk and not a "get rich quick scheme".

The "mining" is not bullshit, it's the amount of work the miners have put into maintaining the block chain. If everyone could just write a script to generate 10,000,000 Bitcoins all at once, the project would be laughable and useless. There has to be a certain cost or difficulty in obtaining the resource (BTC in this case), or they won't be worth anything, just like precious metals. I'm not sure if you're aware that there is a finite amount of Bitcoins that will ever be generated, which is 21,000,000. I suggest you read this.

'At current difficulty rates' See this is the problem, from this link https://bitclockers.com/calc in a week that difficult will increase by 27%. Add to that more miners looking for fewer coins, and the rate of difficulty is bound to rise exponentially.

Its bullshit because virtual currency is not a resource, its virtual, and massively subject to the exchange rates of other currencies. It's bullshit because the miner's rate of return for the same amount of work diminishes hugely as the coin limit is approached. Why is the cost of aquiring it not just limited to buying through bitcoin exchanges, why have mineable coins at all?

[mashman]

It was only like 3 posts ago. And what is wrong with follow up questions, it wasn't my poll.

A few problems:
Without money, who decides who gets what?
Without pay, why should those who dislike their job keep working?

Nope, still can't see it. Perhaps you be so kind as to highlight the quote along with your translation?

Just carry on consuming what you currently do and then no one needs to make that decision. Failing that, use your common sense and personal responsibility, but if you wouldn't mind sparing a thought for others, it would be appreciated.
Those who detest their job do so for a reason. Hopefully people will be prepared to suffer it in the short term whilst we figure out exactly what jobs are required and what jobs aren't... then maybe they'll take the 3 or 4 hour job that makes a difference to the community instead of making a money for an employer they dislike. Entirely up to them. Given there are no financial constraints, they'll still be able to get on with their day. Should they decide to rush out and consume consume consume without a care in the world, they will eventually have nothing left to consume. Perhaps at that point in time they'll come to appreciate the contribution that others make for them.

True.

"I don't want to work in the dag cruching plant any more - I want to work in a fashion shop selling knickers to hot chicks and helping them to get the right bra size"

Eventually I envisage that with the drastic drop in price range, you could finally get into women's underwear.

[bogan]

Nope, still can't see it. Perhaps you be so kind as to highlight the quote along with your translation?

Just carry on consuming what you currently do and then no one needs to make that decision. Failing that, use your common sense and personal responsibility, but if you wouldn't mind sparing a thought for others, it would be appreciated.
Those who detest their job do so for a reason. Hopefully people will be prepared to suffer it in the short term whilst we figure out exactly what jobs are required and what jobs aren't... then maybe they'll take the 3 or 4 hour job that makes a difference to the community instead of making a money for an employer they dislike. Entirely up to them. Given there are no financial constraints, they'll still be able to get on with their day. Should they decide to rush out and consume consume consume without a care in the world, they will eventually have nothing left to consume. Perhaps at that point in time they'll come to appreciate the contribution that others make for them.



Eventually I envisage that with the drastic drop in price range, you could finally get into women's underwear.

Errr, I did highlight the quote. You said that bike shops got stuff in because there was money in it for them, and would not do so otherwise.

But currently I budget and save up money for things I want. How do I budget and save up for things without money? I would still want them, so what factors determine when I can get them? while ensuring that the Global Import Budget is not exceeded.
Dagging sheep is certainly a required job, people do it because the pay is good. Why system has the right to ask that they suffer through it while getting the same benefits as those selling undies?

[mashman]

Errr, I did highlight the quote. You said that bike shops got stuff in because there was money in it for them, and would not do so otherwise.

But currently I budget and save up money for things I want. How do I budget and save up for things without money? I would still want them, so what factors determine when I can get them? while ensuring that the Global Import Budget is not exceeded.
Dagging sheep is certainly a required job, people do it because the pay is good. Why system has the right to ask that they suffer through it while getting the same benefits as those selling undies?

A small part of what I said was that shops currently do it for money (some for the love I have no doubt), but I didn't say they wouldn't do it otherwise.

You could look at it from the perspective that the import budget would never run out. Remember money is plucked out of thin air... and failing that we can simply adjust the value of goods that are produced in NZ, let's call that inflation, and raise the balance sheet. Essentially the financial value of your country can be what you would like it to be. However, being fair to the rest of the world would see us limit our prosperity. We don't want to cause a global financial crisis after all, not another one. but in answer to your question: if you truly need something that you would have normally required, then the budget will be found. Sure there may well be "limits" on some things (primarily linked to wasteful consumption), but you will be able to have what you need.
We'll use robots to de-dag sheep. Then the people who do that job can move on to something a little more important, hopefully. Perhaps they will go an sell undies and live out their dreams in ladies underwear. There will be jobs that no one wants to do, there will be jobs that not all have the skills to do, there will be jobs that we can all do, but they'll all need doing. How we decide to organise ourselves is our choice. Perhaps we'll organise ourselves in such a way that we'll rotate across jobs so that they don't get monotonous as well as providing failover and cover should the need arise. How would you organise us?

[bogan]

A small part of what I said was that shops currently do it for money (some for the love I have no doubt), but I didn't say they wouldn't do it otherwise.

You could look at it from the perspective that the import budget would never run out. Remember money is plucked out of thin air... and failing that we can simply adjust the value of goods that are produced in NZ, let's call that inflation, and raise the balance sheet. Essentially the financial value of your country can be what you would like it to be. However, being fair to the rest of the world would see us limit our prosperity. We don't want to cause a global financial crisis after all, not another one. but in answer to your question: if you truly need something that you would have normally required, then the budget will be found. Sure there may well be "limits" on some things (primarily linked to wasteful consumption), but you will be able to have what you need.
We'll use robots to de-dag sheep. Then the people who do that job can move on to something a little more important, hopefully. Perhaps they will go an sell undies and live out their dreams in ladies underwear. There will be jobs that no one wants to do, there will be jobs that not all have the skills to do, there will be jobs that we can all do, but they'll all need doing. How we decide to organise ourselves is our choice. Perhaps we'll organise ourselves in such a way that we'll rotate across jobs so that they don't get monotonous as well as providing failover and cover should the need arise. How would you organise us?

Wow, you really have no concept of how the global economy works do you?

[mashman]

Wow, you really have no concept of how the global economy works do you?

Would you care to expand on the reasons that have led you to that conclusion?

[bogan]

Would you care to expand on the reasons that have led you to that conclusion?

The financial value of our country is determined by other countries; primarily their valuation on the goods/services our country exports. A country can manipulate their own valuation to a degree by managing exports and the amount of currency in circulation, but you can't just click your fingers and pluck it out of thin air.

[mashman]

The financial value of our country is determined by other countries; primarily their valuation on the goods/services our country exports. A country can manipulate their own valuation to a degree by managing exports and the amount of currency in circulation, but you can't just click your fingers and pluck it out of thin air.

You can if NZ Inc holds all of the zero's and one's... although it'll be more of a tapping of the fingers than a clicking.

[bogan]

You can if NZ Inc holds all of the zero's and one's... although it'll be more of a tapping of the fingers than a clicking.

How exactly?

[scumdog]

The financial value of our country is determined by other countries; primarily their valuation on the goods/services our country exports. A country can manipulate their own valuation to a degree by managing exports and the amount of currency in circulation, but you can't just click your fingers and pluck it out of thin air.

I think even Piggy found THAT out!

[mashman]

How exactly?

Give everyone a pay rise. Give everyone a pay cut. Change the prices of raw materials. Make a speech about what we intend to do in response to the country's economic profile (like Wheeler did this morning and in response the $ fell, because he made a speech ). We could quite easily have several thousand variations that would respond to various economic issues and readjust the value of the economy accordingly. A human being just has to agree with the situation, type in the appropriate code and pop the enter key. People build economic models all the time, but they're predictive, we would build a reactive one.

[scumdog]

Change the prices of raw materials.

Wow, how will you persuade the overseas suppliers of raw material to do that??

[mashman]

Wow, how will you persuade the overseas suppliers of raw material to do that??

We threaten them by fucking their economy over... then again, I did mean the ones that NZ produces.

[bogan]

Give everyone a pay rise. Give everyone a pay cut. Change the prices of raw materials. Make a speech about what we intend to do in response to the country's economic profile (like Wheeler did this morning and in response the $ fell, because he made a speech ). We could quite easily have several thousand variations that would respond to various economic issues and readjust the value of the economy accordingly. A human being just has to agree with the situation, type in the appropriate code and pop the enter key. People build economic models all the time, but they're predictive, we would build a reactive one.

Give everyone a pay rise, and people would buy from elsewhere, give everyone a pay cut and they would move elsewhere (though now I'm confused, cos I thought people didn't get paid in a money free society). Change the price of raw materials and they would be bought elsewhere, or NZ's stock would be bought out then we would have to import our own at higher prices than we just sold it. I'm no economist, but your oversimplification and just plain misunderstanding of how the global economy works pretty much voids your ideals of a local money free society functioning within the world economy.

You don't seem to realise prediction is vastly preferable to reactive as an economic model due to how investing works. Sell when you predict something is about to fall in price is far better than selling as a reaction to a drop in price.

[scumdog]

We threaten them by fucking their economy over... then again, I did mean the ones that NZ produces.

And overseas suppliers to NZ?