MNZ voting results - where, who, how many?

[Racey Rider]

.....why not realign voting with licensing, cant have one without the other being cast blah blah blah.......

Wouldn't it be easier just to flip a coin? Couse you'd get the same result as forcing people to vote.

I didn't vote this year, as after 5 or 6 years with a licence, I still wouldn't know the face of Jim or others. (Ok I know Billy's face, - but I try and Block that out as much as I can...)

I don't know what they've done. I don't know what they stand for in the future.
Maybe not their fault, as I don't/can't get to high profile events. (Just a club racer).
Can't get to AGM's (tho I'd like to be a part of that - would certainly watch if they were streamed online.)

In the past, I had voted for somebody because someone I Did know, said the were good.

So to force me to vote - would just be a random click of a button. And over the entire process it would be a result of, - how many Random clicks for This guy, over That guy.

My thoughts are, if only 10% of all licence hold really know what's going on in the sport, then maybe a vote by just that 10% would be better for All, than 100% of members just clicking random buttons.

(This post is meant to be Helpful, - and give food for thought)

Racey

[scrivy]

I'm still perplexed that the Presidents, Commissioners and Board members aren't paid (or part subsidised) positions.
They get to change our sport for us, without always asking us what we want, making good and bad decisions that affect us all.

Why is it that no one wants to put their hand up to do these jobs? Because they are working obscene amounts of hours for nothing. That'll be why there isn't hoards of people fighting over the positions up for grabs.
Imagine if the positions were partly paid. There would be hands up by more people, and we would have a greater choice when voting.

I still cant understand that we once had a person paid a 6 figure income, and now the person doing his job is paid nothing..... Got me fucked.
We certainly get what we pay for.

[Billy]

I'm still perplexed that the Presidents, Commissioners and Board members aren't paid (or part subsidised) positions.
They get to change our sport for us, without always asking us what we want, making good and bad decisions that affect us all.

Why is it that no one wants to put their hand up to do these jobs? Because they are working obscene amounts of hours for nothing. That'll be why there isn't hoards of people fighting over the positions up for grabs.
Imagine if the positions were partly paid. There would be hands up by more people, and we would have a greater choice when voting.

I still cant understand that we once had a person paid a 6 figure income, and now the person doing his job is paid nothing..... Got me fucked.
We certainly get what we pay for.

Yip,

Alot of the above is true,However,I don't see how paying the commissioners and board is going to fix any of the problems we face at present,Firstly for us to be paying officials on a similar level to other countries,Our licence/membership fee would be horrendous(I would estimate somewhere around $1000.00 plus),Remembering other countries have a huge number more members than we do,Take for example Australia where their licence fee is $500 AUD per year and they probably have twice the membership we do.

Also,I think the system we have CAN work,If its properly implemented,IE the Sidecar racing association,If all the other classes had a similar system to them,Things would be a lot easier to organise,I have started forming sub commissions for the different National level classes to try and allow myself more time to concentrate on moving the discipline forward,However even that has been a challenge,Also(Hear comes the broken record) If everybody read the rulebook and followed the correct procedures,It would definitely make the commissioners jobs easier,IE,Recently I spent countless hours trying to work with the guys at Shoutout Events to get their Supermoto class series up and running,As did the folks at Motorcycling Canterbury,However they thought they could just flout the rules and do whatever,Whenever,Partly because they hadn't bothered to read the rules properly in the first place,When it came to a head and MCI withdrew the permit application they had put forward on Shoutout's behalf,They read the rules and realised where they went wrong,Unfortunately by then it was too late as they had lost the confidence of MCI and had no club to apply for their permits,Leaving them to run "black" and meaning any series they run will mean nothing.Wasting a whole bunch of my time that could have been spent elsewhere moving us forward.

Another problem facing officials is the complete lack of agreement amongst the members as to what it is they actually want,Most of the time a majority is around 25-30% on any one subject leaving the commissioners and board to sort the rest out,In any event the decisions we make are never going to please as many as we would like,Yip we get what we pay for but we can make things alot better just by taking a bit more notice of whats happening in our sport other than just rubbishing the decisions made by those that are stupid enough to stand in the firing line.

[scrivy]

Yip,

Alot of the above is true,However,I don't see how paying the commissioners and board is going to fix any of the problems we face at present,Firstly for us to be paying officials on a similar level to other countries,Our licence/membership fee would be horrendous(I would estimate somewhere around $1000.00 plus),Remembering other countries have a huge number more members than we do,Take for example Australia where their licence fee is $500 AUD per year and they probably have twice the membership we do.
Yeah, but even $50 more per member is $150,000 plus. Easily enough to pay $10,000 plus to each main person currently doing a job now for love. (More like for the love of working your ass off for nothing)

Another problem facing officials is the complete lack of agreement amongst the members as to what it is they actually want,Most of the time a majority is around 25-30% on any one subject leaving the commissioners and board to sort the rest out,In any event the decisions we make are never going to please as many as we would like,Yip we get what we pay for but we can make things alot better just by taking a bit more notice of whats happening in our sport other than just rubbishing the decisions made by those that are stupid enough to stand in the firing line.

I certainly wasn't digging at you Billy. You've done a great deal of good for our sport lately, and I've told you that.
I wish all classes had their own association as per the sidecars. Majority decisions get made for the betterment of all class members, communication is better/faster/relevant, and basically everyone in the class can have their say - then have it directed to MNZ. Also, it's only one voice that MNZ has to listen to. Rather than ramblings from lots in different directions....

My last post was merely explaining why there isn't more people going for a position. As the pinnicle of our niche sport, I feel that the position should be represented professionally, and hence a semi-paid position. Prorata payment for effort put in.

Scrivy

[Billy]

I certainly wasn't digging at you Billy. You've done a great deal of good for our sport lately, and I've told you that.
I wish all classes had their own association as per the sidecars. Majority decisions get made for the betterment of all class members, communication is better/faster/relevant, and basically everyone in the class can have their say - then have it directed to MNZ. Also, it's only one voice that MNZ has to listen to. Rather than ramblings from lots in different directions....

My last post was merely explaining why there isn't more people going for a position. As the pinnicle of our niche sport, I feel that the position should be represented professionally, and hence a semi-paid position. Prorata payment for effort put in.

Scrivy

Yip,

I didnt take at as a dig at me or anybody else,I was just trying to point out that what we have can be made to work to a more acceptable level,If more people other than those already working behind the scenes,Took a bit more interest in the sport and studied the rules a bit more carefully when applying for permits etc or requiring info on their class.


I do understand where your coming from,But I know of atleast 2 people that have made queries about my job in the past and walked away when they discovered it was unpaid and quite frankly I shudder to think where we would be if either got the position,Really the people running the individual disciplines need to be doing it for the sport and not for self interest.

[scrivy]

Yip,

I didnt take at as a dig at me or anybody else,I was just trying to point out that what we have can be made to work to a more acceptable level,If more people other than those already working behind the scenes,Took a bit more interest in the sport and studied the rules a bit more carefully when applying for permits etc or requiring info on their class.


I do understand where your coming from,But I know of atleast 2 people that have made queries about my job in the past and walked away when they discovered it was unpaid and quite frankly I shudder to think where we would be if either got the position,Really the people running the individual disciplines need to be doing it for the sport and not for self interest.

100% agree with you.
So...... how do we make other classes belong to an association?

[budda]

Yip,

I didnt take at as a dig at me or anybody else,I was just trying to point out that what we have can be made to work to a more acceptable level,If more people other than those already working behind the scenes,Took a bit more interest in the sport and studied the rules a bit more carefully when applying for permits etc or requiring info on their class.


I do understand where your coming from,But I know of atleast 2 people that have made queries about my job in the past and walked away when they discovered it was unpaid and quite frankly I shudder to think where we would be if either got the position,Really the people running the individual disciplines need to be doing it for the sport and not for self interest.

Amen ......

[Kevin G]

I still cant understand that we once had a person paid a 6 figure income, and now the person doing his job is paid nothing..... Got me fucked.
We certainly get what we pay for.

Not quite correct....The last MNZ president before Jim was Sandra Perry who was also unpaid. You are confusing this position with the paid employee position of CEO that was disestablished some years back after an independent external review was done of the organisation and they recommended this was done among other changes.

Kevin Goddard

[slowpoke]

Yip,

Alot of the above is true,However,I don't see how paying the commissioners and board is going to fix any of the problems we face at present,Firstly for us to be paying officials on a similar level to other countries,Our licence/membership fee would be horrendous(I would estimate somewhere around $1000.00 plus),Remembering other countries have a huge number more members than we do,Take for example Australia where their licence fee is $500 AUD per year and they probably have twice the membership we do.

Also,I think the system we have CAN work,If its properly implemented,IE the Sidecar racing association,If all the other classes had a similar system to them,Things would be a lot easier to organise,I have started forming sub commissions for the different National level classes to try and allow myself more time to concentrate on moving the discipline forward,However even that has been a challenge,Also(Hear comes the broken record) If everybody read the rulebook and followed the correct procedures,It would definitely make the commissioners jobs easier,IE,Recently I spent countless hours trying to work with the guys at Shoutout Events to get their Supermoto class series up and running,As did the folks at Motorcycling Canterbury,However they thought they could just flout the rules and do whatever,Whenever,Partly because they hadn't bothered to read the rules properly in the first place,When it came to a head and MCI withdrew the permit application they had put forward on Shoutout's behalf,They read the rules and realised where they went wrong,Unfortunately by then it was too late as they had lost the confidence of MCI and had no club to apply for their permits,Leaving them to run "black" and meaning any series they run will mean nothing.Wasting a whole bunch of my time that could have been spent elsewhere moving us forward.

Another problem facing officials is the complete lack of agreement amongst the members as to what it is they actually want,Most of the time a majority is around 25-30% on any one subject leaving the commissioners and board to sort the rest out,In any event the decisions we make are never going to please as many as we would like,Yip we get what we pay for but we can make things alot better just by taking a bit more notice of whats happening in our sport other than just rubbishing the decisions made by those that are stupid enough to stand in the firing line.

I'm kinda with Scrivy on this one, regards paying Commissioners: knowing what you put into he sport you musct be massively out of pocket. It's bad enough being under time pressure but assuming that sort of role shouldn't entail financial pressure as well.

Your rule book comments are justified but I wonder if the first port of call shouldn't be to our respective clubs rather than to the Commissioner? Follow the chain of command and if you get no joy then take it further up the ladder. Spread the load and let you concentrate on the bigger picture stuff. I realise it's very dependent on the questions or problems encountered but if the clubs could head off some of the issues at the pass then it would obviously make things easier on you. You might be a victim of your own availaibility/willingness to help, which is a good thing, but not doing yourself any favours.

Your last comment regarding getting some sort of accord amongst stakeholders is a valid one, but if you get that MNZ Forum up and running it should help get people involved, interested and understanding of the details related to different issues. Instant feedback should also help streamline things a bit? Ya never know, might even get interested parties involved and assume some of your load? Stranger things have happened.

[shoutout]

Yip,

Alot of the above is true,However,I don't see how paying the commissioners and board is going to fix any of the problems we face at present,Firstly for us to be paying officials on a similar level to other countries,Our licence/membership fee would be horrendous(I would estimate somewhere around $1000.00 plus),Remembering other countries have a huge number more members than we do,Take for example Australia where their licence fee is $500 AUD per year and they probably have twice the membership we do.

Also,I think the system we have CAN work,If its properly implemented,IE the Sidecar racing association,If all the other classes had a similar system to them,Things would be a lot easier to organise,I have started forming sub commissions for the different National level classes to try and allow myself more time to concentrate on moving the discipline forward,However even that has been a challenge,Also(Hear comes the broken record) If everybody read the rulebook and followed the correct procedures,It would definitely make the commissioners jobs easier,IE,Recently I spent countless hours trying to work with the guys at Shoutout Events to get their Supermoto class series up and running,As did the folks at Motorcycling Canterbury,However they thought they could just flout the rules and do whatever,Whenever,Partly because they hadn't bothered to read the rules properly in the first place,When it came to a head and MCI withdrew the permit application they had put forward on Shoutout's behalf,They read the rules and realised where they went wrong,Unfortunately by then it was too late as they had lost the confidence of MCI and had no club to apply for their permits,Leaving them to run "black" and meaning any series they run will mean nothing.Wasting a whole bunch of my time that could have been spent elsewhere moving us forward.

Another problem facing officials is the complete lack of agreement amongst the members as to what it is they actually want,Most of the time a majority is around 25-30% on any one subject leaving the commissioners and board to sort the rest out,In any event the decisions we make are never going to please as many as we would like,Yip we get what we pay for but we can make things alot better just by taking a bit more notice of whats happening in our sport other than just rubbishing the decisions made by those that are stupid enough to stand in the firing line.

Hi Billy, Dean from Shoutout Events.
You sent me an email on 14/05/2013 after we where working together on progressing a Supermoto Championship, you where asking why we advertised a Nationals and had our permit put on hold.
As per my email on we just added the word " National " and i asked why this was causing a problem you replied " read the rule book " remove the word " national " asap no reference to a clause in rule book.
We replied again adding reference to clause 4.10.5 and 4.1.1 , your reply was " interesting i have forwarded your concerns to office and board and to date we have had no other contact from MNZ office on this matter.

I have sent a number of emails to Jim which have gone unanswered to date to

Then we get a call from MCI on 28/05/2013 to say our permit have been rejected, i send a email to MNZ and you asking where we failed to meet MNZ rules, You replied that you forwarded this to MNZ office and you spoke to MCI about what was going on, and repeated to inform me to read the rule book. I repeat we have only had correspondence from you.
We get a email from Jim stating that " ShoutOut has been advised several times by multiple people " this is no true we have only had feed back from you, NOT the MNZ office.

Billy we could not understand what the problem was, in our eyes we where not calling in a Championship so whats wrong, but with what was going down made us to keep re reading the rule book and on 29/05/2013 we came across ruling 5.5.6 and 5.5.8 which we sent a email to MNZ and you explaining that
Dear Graeme, Jim, Vicky and Jannine



We have studied the MNZ rule book again and have come across the following ruling:



Additional rules applying to New Zealand and Island Championships 5.5.6 and 5.5.8



We can see MNZ’s position and are now in and are still open to discussion and addressing this with a view to a positive outcome for all parties. We would like to make very clear we did not know of this ruling in our naming of our event and in no way wanted to go against this ruling, but this has occurred and we are all now are at the position we find ourselves in.


We except that ShoutOut Events should know the MNZ rules if we want to be a part of them and again apologise for any miss communication, our intention was and is to only grow the Supermoto sport of motorcycling



Our first step would be to continue this in the original format that was presented to MNZ, but as a Private Promoter rather than third hand through my club.( MCI )



We think with open dialogue we can progress from here but this requires all parties to come to the table with an open mind and the desire to advance motorcycling. Shoutout Events is more than open to discuss this and to continue jointly with partnership from MNZ.




Yours faithfully,
Your reply was happy to try and get this sorted out amicably and wait for MNZ to return 30/05/2013
my reply was
Hi Billy,
We are all after the same out come more butts on bikes make it fun and entertaining for spectators grow the sport, yes we all could improve our skills of communication but let's just focuss on moving forward .
Cheers Dean

04/06/2013 I emailed you and MNZ about requesting a formal reply to our email and get a MCI have removed applications for Supermoto events you need to become a private promoter and included all attachments to do this.

05/06/2013 we replied
First thanks for your reply,

As i remember our conversation it was suggested that we use my club, MCI to apply for permits, and have looked at the Private promoter pack, which is my understanding that requires 90 days before a event and board approval, guessing another 10 days, so looks like 100 days out before an event.

With our race calendar already well established, booked and deposit paid we would like to thank MNZ for there investment of time and energy towards our vision, goals and objective and have seeked further advice on this matter.

Regards Dean

So now here we are, on a forum that is not MNZ but i felt i needed to answer your comments
We haven't asked another club we believe the best way forward would be private promoter
What is a " black " i couldn't find in in the rule book ??
Why would you feel our series means nothing ??
MNZ have not run a Supermoto Championship to date and we have the only Championship track in New Zealand and we want to run a Championship.

Is this advancing the sport of motorcycling ??

Cheers Dean James ShoutOut Events

[Kickaha]

What is a " black " i couldn't find in in the rule book ??

A meeting run outside of MNZ channels and not using a MNZ permit

[Billy]

A meeting run outside of MNZ channels and not using a MNZ permit

Bingo,

If its not run under an MNZ permit,Then it is not under the FIM umbrella and is not a recognised championship.

Dean,

I'm not going to bother quoting your post as it will take up the best part of a page,However,Just let me say,I offered a brief account of the time I spent on your requests as an example of the time that can be needlessly wasted,However if you wish to discuss publicly the whole issue,So be it,But please try and stick to the facts,Your permit applications were not rejected as you claim,As I stated earlier,The good folks at Motorcycling Canterbury withdrew them,Not MNZ,I understand their President had dialogue with you at their AGM 2 weeks ago and explained their position,Im sure the fact that Shoutout events insisted I exclude their club secretary from any correspondence in relation to their permit application played no small part.You were kept informed by the office administrator at MNZ of what was required of you and I have replied to every email you and your partner have sent me,On that basis I am bewidered as to your claim of a lack of communication and unanswered emails and phonecalls mentioned on your facebook page,Any further correspondence on this matter should be directed to mnzrrc@gmail.com

[slowpoke]

Bingo,

If its not run under an MNZ permit,Then it is not under the FIM umbrella and is not a recognised championship.

Not recognised by MNZ or FIM. The general public and Supermoto crew may view that differently. I'm just sayin', not takin' sides......

[scott411]

Not recognised by MNZ or FIM. The general public and Supermoto crew may view that differently. I'm just sayin', not takin' sides......

agreed, there are a number of off road races in NZ that are non MNZ, and still held in very high regard by the people that racing community, and the distributors as well,

[Billy]

Not recognised by MNZ or FIM. The general public and Supermoto crew may view that differently. I'm just sayin', not takin' sides......

agreed, there are a number of off road races in NZ that are non MNZ, and still held in very high regard by the people that racing community, and the distributors as well,

Agreed in both cases,But the facts are,It will not be recognised internationally and therefore carries no real recognition,

I don't necessarily disagree with them running outside the MNZ parameters,So long as their competitors are made aware of all the facts,There have been a number of entrants contacting the office to have their licence upgraded to a National level licence on the advice of the organiser,Despite their repeated denials they have been labelling this a National event,More power to them so long as they are upfront with everybody.

Fortunately for those who have been misled into a licence upgrade,The office staff at MNZ have once realised there was no need for the unecessary upgrade,Offered a credit to those involved toward next years licence.