David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[Edbear]

So he mistakenly called it empty.

What's your response to the rest of paragraph 49(iv)?

How could he make such an obvious mistake? You are happy to call anyone into question regarding their reliability based on any slip. He made fundamental errors yet you still prefer to believe him over everybody else.

[Indoo]

So he mistakenly called it empty.

You might have been able to dismiss it as a one off mistake if he didn't continuously refer to it as an empty magazine throughout his entire report. The key difference is he believed it was empty, which is evidence of the rigor he actually put into examining the evidence and producing his report.

What's your response to the rest of paragraph 49(iv)?

I'm assuming given the context you are referring to his comments in regards to the upright magazine? Given that he offers absolutely nothing to support his conclusion, and has already demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the evidence in question, I'd give his comments the authority they deserve. Which is unfortunate because it is a key piece of evidence in terms of mutual exclusivity, and unless Dunedin was in the grips of a zombie apocalypse at the time, it's position physically precludes Robin from having placed it there which only leaves two other options, David placed it there or someone else did (who, why and how...).

Just watched the video of the magazine residue testing. I had assumed that after reloading the magazine each participant would then go through the process of loading a new magazine, chambered a round and then physically simulating the same handling of the rifle as Robin would have had to have done to have shot himself, to show that not only did the residue lines exist, but that they would still be clear and distinct after handling the rifle, instead they have just farcically reloaded the magazine and taken a photo immediately after. Very scientific....

[Katman]

I'm assuming given the context you are referring to his comments in regards to the upright magazine?

No, more this....

The prosecution’s own expert, who performed tests of the
“fingerprint blood” after the 1995 conviction, acknowledged that no “human
DNA” was detected.

[Katman]

Just watched the video of the magazine residue testing. I had assumed that after reloading the magazine each participant would then go through the process of loading a new magazine, chambered a round and then physically simulating the same handling of the rifle as Robin would have had to have done to have shot himself, to show that not only did the residue lines exist, but that they would still be clear and distinct after handling the rifle, instead they have just farcically reloaded the magazine and taken a photo immediately after. Very scientific....

You're a cop, aren't you?

[Erelyes]

http://www.justice.govt.nz/media/in-...d-Bain-reports

is the amended link.

Katman - I presume you're referencing the 'second amended' version of Binnie's report? The paragraph numbers were changed between versions.

[scissorhands]

Hes got a point, but the reload and shoot motions, would need to be repeated dozens of times, to calculate variance of marks wiping off or remaining on the thumb

I guesstimate being on the sided of the thumb, the marks would likely remain after performing those movements

[Coldrider]

You might have been able to dismiss it as a one off mistake if he didn't continuously refer to it as an empty magazine throughout his entire report. The key difference is he believed it was empty, which is evidence of the rigor he actually put into examining the evidence and producing his report.



I'm assuming given the context you are referring to his comments in regards to the upright magazine? Given that he offers absolutely nothing to support his conclusion, and has already demonstrated a complete lack of understanding of the evidence in question, I'd give his comments the authority they deserve. Which is unfortunate because it is a key piece of evidence in terms of mutual exclusivity, and unless Dunedin was in the grips of a zombie apocalypse at the time, it's position physically precludes Robin from having placed it there which only leaves two other options, David placed it there or someone else did (who, why and how...).

Just watched the video of the magazine residue testing. I had assumed that after reloading the magazine each participant would then go through the process of loading a new magazine, chambered a round and then physically simulating the same handling of the rifle as Robin would have had to have done to have shot himself, to show that not only did the residue lines exist, but that they would still be clear and distinct after handling the rifle, instead they have just farcically reloaded the magazine and taken a photo immediately after. Very scientific....

Yes you are a very smart cookie.

Were you the one that busted the Ashurst 'D'. you know the one, bound and gagged in his burning house?

[Indoo]

The prosecution’s own expert, who performed tests of the
“fingerprint blood” after the 1995 conviction, acknowledged that no “human
DNA” was detected.

If you want to resort to pointless strawman's and ad hominen attacks, you should dredge up the old thread on this subject rather than polluting this one.

Get back to me when you can come up with a coherent response to something I've actually addressed.

[Katman]

If you want to resort to pointless strawman's and ad hominen attacks, you should dredge up the old thread on this subject rather than polluting this one.

Get back to me when you can come up with a coherent response to something I've actually addressed.

You and scumdog would make a wonderful couple.

[Coldrider]

The TV3 doco adds an interesting question to the case although its not a gamebreaker IMHO. The thumbprint suggests scars not surface marks. For what its worth:



1. Full Bladder - originally this convinced me by itself. As a 50ish male it is impossible to imagine waking up and not taking a piss. Immediately. If you were nervous then you'd be up in the night and still need to urgently pee in the morning. Nevertheless a pathologist testified at the second trial that he autopsies deceased males with full bladders, so it is possible.




2. Computer message. This is a 50+ yr old man, a school teacher, in 1994, a man who grew up using a fountain pen, graduated to a ballpoint, and normally used chalk and a pencil. He murders his wife - then he murders his children whom he gave life to, and in the process has a fight with Stephen - then knowing David is due in the house any minute, he switches on the computer?? And waits for it to boot up so he can open the word processor to type a final message? Really? Would anybody here do that?

Reflecting your own health considerations onto others does not make them innocent or guilty. I too am in my fifties, I don't need a slash first thing, even before morning sex, that does not make me a rapist either. Just means some should have their prostrates checked.

Windows three wasn't that bad in its time, my boss was using it daily at the time and he was nearing retirement.

[Coldrider]

I don't think courier post provides transportation and supervised access for murder weapons yet, which might explain the presence of a Police car.

Bit embarrassing for the T.V show involved, I bet they wish now they had made at least a pretense at presenting a balanced story.

How many police districts has 3rd degree made fools of now, should have seen this coming, obviously exhibits are handed out willy nilly, has the Bill and Ben show asked for any yet?

[Coldrider]

You and scumdog would make a wonderful couple.

No, I was breed by one, my model got a huge huge medal from the queen before he retired. Scumdog is real and the other is a plastic puppet with mouth strings.

[Winston001]

Reflecting your own health considerations onto others does not make them innocent or guilty. I too am in my fifties, I don't need a slash first thing, even before morning sex, that does not make me a rapist either. Just means some should have their prostrates checked.

Windows three wasn't that bad in its time, my boss was using it daily at the time and he was nearing retirement.

Yes that's fair comment. I can only say that bladder pressure is common in older men. And yes, it is generally prostate related. A pathologist for the defence gave an explanation for the post-mortem bladder being full so that goes in David's favour.

Still I remain skeptical that an older man would choose a computer to leave the last mesage of his life on a computer instead of a pencil and piece of paper.

[Katman]

Still I remain skeptical that an older man would choose a computer to leave the last mesage of his life on a computer instead of a pencil and piece of paper.

In the whole scheme of things that's a remarkably small issue to base your belief of David's guilt on.

As a school teacher, Robin Bain was well versed in using computers.

[mansell]

In the whole scheme of things that's a remarkably small issue to base your belief of David's guilt on.

As a school teacher, Robin Bain was well versed in using computers.

Not that time, we didn't really start using them as aprofession until about 10 years ago, and most of the older teachers didn't even know how to turn them on. As little as five years ago most schoolteachers were still hand writing reports. Teaching as a profession was one of the last to embrace ICT