MotoGP 2013

[slowpoke]

Fucking bullshit. You've got your Rossi blinkers on like the rest of the fanboiclub. And I get shit! Tell me whilst keeping a straight face that Rossi's move on Stoner wasn't as bad...if not worse than Bautista's move? On the one hand...you say you want biffo...and we're queer..on the other...you're talking shit sorry mate. Rossi does his best to stop riders getting aggro with him. Certain riders used to fall for it...others didn't. You've been sucked into it. "no more competitive on the Honda?" Ummm...a 4th place behine Valentino Rossi at Laguna Seca? Yeah...guess Bradly Smith and God only knows how many other riders should have his ride. Bautista busted himself silly riding a Suzuki that was a pile of shit but kept trying. He's better value to me as visual experience than a lot of the other grid fillers. CRT anyone?

Jeezus, Pete you are obsessed with that one Rossi move on Stoner......you obviously haven't heard that Stoner still easily won the championship, so the sky did not fall. I couldn't care less about Rossi, I just want to see close racing where the race is able to unfold not decided in the first corner with 4 riders in the gravel trap, or the championship leader is speared into from several rows back with not a hope in hell of making the corner. Forget the fuck about Rossi man, he's just not that big a deal these days.

Now here's the thing about the ol' WSB racing you reference as "biffo": I've watched the whole 2004 season now and for all the on track cage fighting and elbowing past at 150mph they never took each other out. Plenty of the moves were fuckin' hard but they walked the fine line between barely in control and out of control exceptionally well with none of the electronic aids they have nowadays as a safety net. Still lotsa crashes, just not into each other, which over that many races is more than just coincidence. Chili, Haga, Laconi, Vermeulen were all "nearly men" battling hard for the championship and never quite cracking it, but they still understood Newton's 2nd law of motorcycle racing: you can't win it on the first lap but you sure can lose it. Bautista on the other hand.....

Funny you should mention Bradley Smith vs Bautista, Bautista's first year in MotoGP he finished 13th in the championship behind Hector Barbera on a shite satellite Ducati. Smith is currently 11th, in front of the still shite satellite Duc's and only three places behind Bautista in 8th. Crutchlow finished his first season in 12th. I don't care if Smith is there or not but those are the numbers. We've all got concerns about how/why he got the ride but so far he's doing better than Crutchlow and Bautista in their rookie seasons.

As for the Suzuki, was it really that bad? That's an unanswered question for me. Capirossi was past his best, Vermeulen was untested at GP level, Hopper was never quite there and same goes for Bautista. The GSVR may well have been crap but without a confirmed front runner on board I find it hard to judge. 2010 was the year even freakish Stoner could only manage 4th on the factory Ducati, so imagine how bad Barbera's satellite Duc was. Looking at the results for 2010 lowly Barbera's best finiish was 8th for a 12th place finish in the championship while Bautista's best finish was 5th (so the bike had some decent pace), yet he only finished 13th with 5 DNF's. The bike mightn't have been great but neither was Bautista.

I'm not sayin' Bautista shouldn't be there, but "he's not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy".

[steveyb]

He's a member of the Peoples Front of Judea, not the Judean Peoples Front, splitter!

[Crasherfromwayback]

Now here's the thing about the ol' WSB racing you reference as "biffo": I've watched the whole 2004 season now and for all the on track cage fighting and elbowing past at 150mph they never took each other out. Plenty of the moves were fuckin' hard but they walked the fine line between barely in control and out of control exceptionally well with none of the electronic aids they have nowadays as a safety net. Still lotsa crashes, just not into each other, which over that many races is more than just coincidence. Chili, Haga, Laconi, Vermeulen were all "nearly men" battling hard for the championship and never quite cracking it, but they still understood Newton's 2nd law of motorcycle racing: you can't win it on the first lap but you sure can lose it. Bautista on the other hand.....



I'm not sayin' Bautista shouldn't be there, but "he's not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy".

Last corner at Donnington anyone? Two BMW's in the dirt. Come on mate...Superbikes have been taking each other out just as often...despite the 2004 season you speak of. It's a part of racing...and you know it. And the electronic aids do nothing for tucking the front and binning it...taking others with you anyway. And of course I know Stoner won the title...but he may not have if he'd broken his collar bone or wrist etc. And I'm not obsessed by that Rossi move...merely an example. My point being....even the best make silly mistakes at times.

Now Bautista. Lets see. Spanish 125 Champ. World 125cc Champ. Rookie of the year 1st year in 250's in a fully packed grid. Runner up in 250cc champs twice, once behind the all conquering Lorenzo, then behind Aoyama. Now what's Bradley Smith won again mate? How many world titles sorry? Runner up in the world series how many times sorry? Yep. Bautista's a real bunny.

[pritch]

Bautista is a good rider and I would like to see him doing rather better. IIRC he alone on the grid is stuck with Showa and Nissin. There may not be a big difference between those components and their Ohlins and Brembo equivalents but there is apparently a difference, it doesn't take much...

As has been said though he has sometimes been naughty.

Change of subject:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30...src=SOC&dom=tw

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bautista is a good rider and I would like to see him doing rather better. IIRC he alone on the grid is stuck with Showa and Nissin. There may not be a big difference between those components and their Ohlins and Brembo equivalents but there is apparently a difference, it doesn't take much...

As has been said though he has sometimes been naughty.

Change of subject:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30...src=SOC&dom=tw

Yeah funny how Bradl is getting better results now he's using Brembo gear eh.

Good read that. Cheers.

[Drew]

Bautista is a good rider and I would like to see him doing rather better. IIRC he alone on the grid is stuck with Showa and Nissin. There may not be a big difference between those components and their Ohlins and Brembo equivalents but there is apparently a difference, it doesn't take much...

As has been said though he has sometimes been naughty.

Change of subject:
http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/07/30...src=SOC&dom=tw

That's an interesting point about tyres not being suited to the Ducati. There might be a residual loyalty from Burgess, or a lack of wanting to admit his boy just couldn't ride the bike. When Stoner was winning on it, the other bike was never on the podium that I can recall.

I remember Stoner destroying everyone at Phillip island his last year on the Ducati, but for the life of me I can't even picture the B bike on track at all.

[pritch]

There might be a residual loyalty from Burgess, or a lack of wanting to admit his boy just couldn't ride the bike.

I doubt that's the case. Kevin Cameron is at the top of the tree as far as motorcycle technical writers go and I doubt he would be susceptible to obfuscation.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I doubt that's the case. Kevin Cameron is at the top of the tree as far as motorcycle technical writers go and I doubt he would be susceptible to obfuscation.

I reckon. He's one very interesting and clever cookie eh!

[Mental Trousers]

Yeah funny how Bradl is getting better results now he's using Brembo gear eh.

Sounds like it was the way the Nissin's behave during the initial squeeze of the lever, biting too strongly too early before there was enough weight on the front tyre so he'd crash. The Brembo's seem to be more progressive.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Sounds like it was the way the Nissin's behave during the initial squeeze of the lever, biting too strongly too early before there was enough weight on the front tyre so he'd crash. The Brembo's seem to be more progressive.

No. It's because Bautista is a muppet.

[roogazza]

Kevin Cameron I doubt he would be susceptible to obfuscation.

Oooooh,love your dirty talk ! That article,interesting stuff, cheers.

[Mental Trousers]

No. It's because Bautista is a muppet.

Bautista has brain fade and bad judgement crashes. Bradl was crashing at the start of the braking zones all the time. Brembo fixed Bradl's crashes. A bullet is probably the only thing that can fix Bautista's crashes.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Bautista has brain fade and bad judgement crashes. Bradl was crashing at the start of the braking zones all the time. Brembo fixed Bradl's crashes. A bullet is probably the only thing that can fix Bautista's crashes.

Ummmm...pretty sure you'll find that's where Bautista is crashing too mate...

[Mental Trousers]

Ummmm...pretty sure you'll find that's where Bautista is crashing too mate...

I dunno. Bradl's crashes were mostly right at the start of the braking area whereas Bautista's are later on. Although I haven't been watching every single session to see all of their crashes.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I dunno. Bradl's crashes were mostly right at the start of the braking area whereas Bautista's are later on. Although I haven't been watching every single session to see all of their crashes.

Simple fact of the matter is...any one of the multiple crashes they've ALL had could've resulted in diff outcomes. That's kinda my point. Don't get to be a world champ at GP level unless you're more than a bit special. And Bautista has done that. That's good enough for me.