MotoGP 2013

[Mental Trousers]

Know a thing or two about twostroke development do we? So when did twostroke development peak? Perhaps when the door was shut on them by Honda.
125's now out to 55HP
I wonder how modern traction control would help the twostroke in racing now.
Yes perhaps I'm just too old but I just can't get enthusiastic about GP's any more.
If I made the rules it would be back to 500cc two or fourstroke ( if Honda thought it was appropriate ) but the twostrokes would be forced into emission constraints, anyway it won't be happening any time soon.
Out of interest if an injected twostroke road bike was put on the market today, say 700cc twin
140 hp, 120kg, would it sell?

Two strokes will be back but they won't be anything like you want them to be. As I've said a number of times in these forums dropping the 1000cc four stroke rule from MotoGP could turn it into a true prototype series. I've no doubt someone would develop a two stroke. Someone else would probably stick a rotary in there.

[BMWST?]

May I respectfully disagree?

If there wasn't such a stringent fuel limit it would be less of a problem, but Yamaha are apparently borderline when it comes to finishing some races with the current permitted fuel load. Whether that's because the M1 is more thirsty, or because the HRC riders are both midgets I don't know. All things being equal a heavier rider uses more gas to get the same performance. Thus the suggestions of a minimum weight limit.

It isn't only Rossi who would benefit, reportedly Redding is the tallest rider on any of the GP grids, although in his first season in MotoGP he may receive a more generous fuel limit depending on what ECU the Honda production racer uses. A year or two back Simoncelli raised the question of a weight limit for the same reason.

The fuel limit was introduced presumably in an attempt to appear socially resonsible but it could potentially spoil races. It certainly wasn't introduced to improve racing or reduce costs, apparently all the teams now have expensive banks of refrigerators to cool their fuel.

maybe redding and simo,but i dont think there is much in it between MM and Jlo?Pedrosa is tiny even by Jlo and MM std.MM is 59 kg and 168 cm,Jlo 65 kg 172 cm,rossi 67 kg and 182 cm,bautista 59kg 167cm,edwards 69kg 179cm,dovi 66kg,168cm,dani 51kg 160cm,crutchlow 66kg 168 cm,Aleix Espargaro,69kg 180cm,redding 74kg and 184cm.What do you propose?

[pritch]

maybe redding and simo,but i dont think there is much in it between MM and Jlo?Pedrosa is tiny even by Jlo and MM std.MM is 59 kg and 168 cm,Jlo 65 kg 172 cm,rossi 67 kg and 182 cm,bautista 59kg 167cm,edwards 69kg 179cm,dovi 66kg,168cm,dani 51kg 160cm,crutchlow 66kg 168 cm,Aleix Espargaro,69kg 180cm,redding 74kg and 184cm.What do you propose?

I'm not proposing a minimum weight limit, Burgess was? Probably because next year the fuel limit for factory bikes is being cut from 21 to 20L. Yamaha are reportedly already having difficulty with the fuel limit so the reduction will be what has Burgess' attention.

Next year, bikes using the Dorna ECU can carry 20% more fuel than the factory bikes - and have over double the engine allocation. Oxley quotes Edwards in the November issue of BIKE, as thinking that the privateer bikes may be fully competitive with the factory bikes on the more thirsty tracks.

If he's right, that could mean more bikes near the front sometimes. That'd be no bad thing, but we'll see.

[Flettner]

Two strokes will be back but they won't be anything like you want them to be.

So what will they be like?

[Mental Trousers]

So what will they be like?

If the 1000cc four stroke rule is removed you'd still have

• fuel consumption rules
• minimum weight rules
• a single make tyre rule

They'd be up against

• computers controlling everything
• four strokes that already produce more power than the tyres can handle
• bikes that make power everywhere that can drive out of slow corners
• tyres that give extremely high corner speeds

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

[Kornholio]

I can't actually agree with that. Whilst I def preferred the 500's...this season has seen some pretty epic shit. But to me...traction control is the worst thing that's ever happened to moto gp.

Hell yeah.. I can actually stay awake for the races now... some pretty intense riding going on these days...

[husaberg]

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

Cost............ plus i guess you have never seen one of these.

Not that i totally agree with the concept.

http://jalopnik.com/372479/ricardo-c...+cycle-engines
I guess even the tree huggers are embracing the idea.
http://www.treehugger.com/clean-tech...-up-to-27.html

[Mental Trousers]

Cost............ plus i guess you have never seen one of these.

Not that i totally agree with the concept.

http://jalopnik.com/372479/ricardo-c...+cycle-engines
I guess even the tree huggers are embracing the idea.
http://www.treehugger.com/clean-tech...-up-to-27.html

That looks great, but whether it'd make a race engine is the question.

The big advantage the four stroke 990's had over the two stroke 500's was their much better power through the mid-range and much more tyre friendly power delivery. Now the advanced traction control systems can sort out the power delivery and direct injection sorts out the mid range. Using software to control the electromagnetic valves to change between 4 stroke and 2 stroke is great but I'd have thought you'd be better sticking to 2 stroke and varying the valve opening times to achieve the desired power outputs at specific rpms as the big advantage of using electromagnetic valves is you can have power everywhere, not just in a narrow power band.

[jasonu]

Doesn't seem to be any advantage to having 2 bangs instead of 1.

Except for the sound and the smell.

[Mental Trousers]

Except for the sound and the smell.

Direct Injection there's no oil in the burn so it smells exactly like a 4 stroke. Valves in the head opening at a different time alters the sound too.

[Oscar]

Direct Injection there's no oil in the burn so it smells exactly like a 4 stroke. Valves in the head opening at a different time alters the sound too.

Direct injection two strokes were looked at for Moto2 and Moto3.

[Mental Trousers]

Direct injection two strokes were looked at for Moto2 and Moto3.

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

[Oscar]

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

No support from the manufacturers, unsurprisingly.
At the moment it still has the same problem as ordinary two strokes in that not that many are sold.
When DI Two Strokes become more popular, maybe...

[husaberg]

Shame they didn't go through with them. I think it was the MSMA, ie the manufacturers, that wanted to go four stroke. Could be wrong about that.

Funny enough the movement started in about 94-95 Cagiva had just left to build the F4 leaving only Yamaha Suzuki and Honda to play in the 500's.

The WSB at the time (Flamini) had Ducati Kawasaki Honda yamaha, with Aprilia Harley Davidson and Cagiva all expected to join.
Then (Dorna i think it was who ran it) GP introduced the 600's thunder bikes for a bit of entertainment.

At the time Superbikes were far more of a spectacle and were drawing big audiences and revenue, and getting bigger and bigger every year.
This was starting to affect the GP incomes purses.
With the WSB The racing was close even if the lap times were slower than the 250 gp bikes.
Racing for most spectators is actually about entertainment.
We are all bike nuts and forget that, well i do anyway.

[Asher]

Imagine if they ditched all rules and set a strict emissions rule only.......

2 strokes, 4 strokes and maybe this....