F1 and F2 or Superbike and Supersport for Nationals

[Billy]

No I understand completely and how it changes the dynamic. I just dont have the stomach to type a novel ( War and Peace ) at this time to explain why we actually have too much racing

According to you we do,Not so a large number of competitors and yet you wish to start YET another class

[Robert Taylor]

According to you we do,Not so a large number of competitors and yet you wish to start YET another class

Given that there is at least one very stagnant class and stagnant fields it has been suggested as a way forward yes. Notwithstanding also a very important point that so many overlook, a ''bridging'' class that actually teaches bike setup skills. Because there will be something that is worthwhile to adjust on such bikes!

[JayRacer37]

We certainly do not want the series heading in the same direction of the mess in Australia. Combining the Suzuki series and the Nationals sounds like a great idea to me. I also thing if there could be a North and South Island championship incorporated this could potentially draw local entries that dont want to cross the ditch.

As a refinement to this idea, anybody doing both North and South rounds becomes ineligible for point scoring in the North/South cup, to give locals incentive to compete in all rounds in each Island. This would mean a winner of the South cup couldn't be announced until end of the full NZSBK season but maybe that wouldn't be an issue?

[wharfy]

Ah I see... So it is constructive!

Yeah - I had to check I WAS on Kiwibiker
Now thats not actually constructive so - As one of those who doesn't do Nats but does do Suzuki Series my reasons are:
The Nats are .. Well the National Championship ! For National Level racers to compete for points
I'm not in that class never have been never will be. My bike is good enough to run in the middle of the pack in Supersport but I am NOT -I'd just be a moving chicane.
As I said in my earlier post the Nats are not a place to "have a go" there is more club racing than you can poke an Ohlins shock at over the summer in NZ . One of the good things about electronic timing is you don't have to enter the Nats to find out how good you are - go to MyLaps compare your lap times with the top ten - if you think you could stay on the same lap as those riders for 15 laps - give it a whirl especially if you are a young up and coming rider.
I might enter a support class at a round - Clubmans ? BEARS ?

The Suzuki Series is NOT a National Championship! The Cemetery Circuit is the drawcard - Yes some of those same Nats riders will be there and if they do BEARS will lap me (maybe - even Choppa didn't lap me last year ) There are classes for bikes that wouldn't be at the Nats. I do the whole series so I get my annual trip up north to Hampton Downs (where I will almost certainly come last and be lapped - but that is OK)
If I do all the rounds and don't crash I might even be in the money
The cemetery circuit is without doubt the BEST bike race meeting in the country (well I recon) The track is a buzz to ride the atmosphere is the BEST the crowd is the BIGGEST - disclaimer - I haven't done a burt Monroe (yet)
If we get 12 - 15 superbikes on the grid at the Nats that will be great, I believe the quality of the racing is more important than entry numbers - Looks like this season will be a ripper - lap records are toppling in the pre-season warm up
Oh I just sent in my entry for the Suzuki Series - You have until Friday folks !

[roogazza]

So we have the annual thread on road racing again. Someone thinks Wanganui is great, someone thinks you're scared if you don't race in the points for the national series and then someone wants a class that you can adjust your suspension or learn to(sorry no dis respect KSS)
Nothing has changed,yes we need talent and depth and as I always have thought, the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.

[Robert Taylor]

The most ridiculous thing is that the last round of the Nationals is a 4 day meeting, when 2 days ( and a practice day ) would have more than adequately sufficed as per other rounds. Have many people not got homes and mothers and wives to go to?

[Robert Taylor]

So we have the annual thread on road racing again. Someone thinks Wanganui is great, someone thinks you're scared if you don't race in the points for the national series and then someone wants a class that you can adjust your suspension or learn to(sorry no dis respect KSS)
Nothing has changed,yes we need talent and depth and as I always have thought, the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.

Fair points! With respect to my thoughts many may choose to disbelieve me as it being nothing more than a commercial angle .But the reality is that there is no formal and controlled structure to teach bike setup skills. People arrive into classes such as Supersport 600 and more often than not are like a fish out of water.

[codgyoleracer]

[QUOTE=roogazza;, - "the problem with the dreaded national series is that it has a question of "Value".
Do you value it enough to want to go do it ???????? If not you just don't bother.[/QUOTE]


I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

[steveyb]

I will add just one more small tid-bit regarding "value" of the NZSBK series, or 'the nationals' as we were (are) wont to call it in the 20th century.

The New Zealand Grand Prix is now the only officially recognised Grand Prix title outside of the MotoGP series.
That is worth something, however small, it is worth something.

As a young or up and coming rider, or a journeyman, I see that just being involved in that is pretty neat.

I am enjoying the generally positive comments here.

I think that putting in place official island titles would be neat, pity ducks couldn't get in line for this summer, but there you go.



I also like the A/B grade championships idea. Could perhaps be termed Factory/Privateer? Of course there would be burglars and dickheads argueing that they are privateers when they are in fact front runners or distributor supported. This would come down to personal ethics, but some rules around where the bike came from, whether distributor contracts have been signed etc could separate the groups. This idea gives the privateers something to compete for outside of the big prize. And in fact, a privateer could win both championships.

[The Chow]

I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

Well said that man , and thank you Glen , that's it exactly it. if you want to do it , do it! If you don't then that's up to your own personal situation (s). Just get out there (if you can) and have some fun as Glen said your riding will improve when you are racing with faster riders , that is after all what it should be about. We are a mino in the world. Just enjoy the sport for what it is in NZ . It is still the best sport in the world , like Choppa I had to double check if I was Kiwi Biker , constructive ideas , wait on that can't be right? Anyway CU around.

[Billy]

The most ridiculous thing is that the last round of the Nationals is a 4 day meeting, when 2 days ( and a practice day ) would have more than adequately sufficed as per other rounds. Have many people not got homes and mothers and wives to go to?

So just one extra day then Robert? 14 races per class over 4 weekends between Taupo and Timaru as opposed to 10 races over 5 weekends between Auckland and Invercargill,Which one holds the most value for competitors for less travel and time away from home???? Its a no brainer really,Might not suit everybody but in the grand scheme of things its way better value for money than we've had,This year they did the same thing in Australia,Japan and the good old USA,Seemed to work for them,When producing the series format,Its about what we think is best for everybody with the clubs and venues we have to work with,Thats what we've done,Be there...Don't be there,Your choice

[budda]

I agree Gazza

"A problem is a chance for you to do your best"

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind which series is the still the biggest personal challenge in New Zealand, its what we colloquially call "the nationals". Over the years it has seen both larger and smaller fields, different classes, smatterings of overseas competitors - and is the only series where many competitors will put pretty much everything on the line to 'do their best'

The fact is - that from a personal competition point of view IT IS the series that we use to compare ourselves to our peers in New Zealand. No other series comes close, and i don't see that changing anytime soon.

Gazza puts it rather directly - but the reality is that IF you you choose to compete against the best in an environment where country titles and points are at stake, I will guarantee that no matter what your level or where you finish - you will come out the other end having learnt a lot and improved a lot.

My budget not inc the bike build for the Tri-Series was $5,000, The budget for nationals is $12500 this year. To me its is a total no brainier which series i will be doing, as value for money the nationals is much more challenging and much more personally gratifying (even though results-wise i suspect the Suzuki Tri-Series, would give me a better result and no doubt some prize-money !)

I urge club guys to at least fit in the south island or north island rounds of the nats, - you will see and be part of a race series and pit area that will enlighten and maybe even motivate you in this great sport of ours.

Amen ..............

[Robert Taylor]

So just one extra day then Robert? 14 races per class over 4 weekends between Taupo and Timaru as opposed to 10 races over 5 weekends between Auckland and Invercargill,Which one holds the most value for competitors for less travel and time away from home???? Its a no brainer really,Might not suit everybody but in the grand scheme of things its way better value for money than we've had,This year they did the same thing in Australia,Japan and the good old USA,Seemed to work for them,When producing the series format,Its about what we think is best for everybody with the clubs and venues we have to work with,Thats what we've done,Be there...Don't be there,Your choice

We await and see then ...........

[Drew]

So long as class within class increases grid numbers, it's win/win for racers and hunters. (Do the TAB offer odds on NZ motorcycle racing? Just a random thought, but wouldn't that bump up bums in seats and bring some much needed revenue to the track?).

Anyhoo. Someone like myself, Tony Ok, Whitetrash, Coxy, would be a lot more likely to run a full nats season if we could go B grade I think. Best of the rest on track possibly, would feel better if the following year I could run B1 (yes I'm thinking what you're thinking B2).

[Billy]

So long as class within class increases grid numbers, it's win/win for racers and hunters. (Do the TAB offer odds on NZ motorcycle racing? Just a random thought, but wouldn't that bump up bums in seats and bring some much needed revenue to the track?).

Anyhoo. Someone like myself, Tony Ok, Whitetrash, Coxy, would be a lot more likely to run a full nats season if we could go B grade I think. Best of the rest on track possibly, would feel better if the following year I could run B1 (yes I'm thinking what you're thinking B2).

Mmmmm,

EXCEPT,The competitors feedback on Pro Twins and Superstock 600 is that they don't bother because they are lumped in with another class and nobody knows when they win a race,So theres no point,I guess on that basis,Its a personal choice and may or may not work,That said,Its not going to interfere with anything else that I can see so wouldn't be a major problem to introduce.