Godzone falling in the international education ratings

[mashman]

You are wrong on so many levels.
An exam is used to see if you can a) move onto the next syllabus and b) if you are capable of preforming the job you have applied for.

Bully for you. I see it differently. a) if they're ready and their work proves so, then just put them in the next class. b) that's just a little bit condescending. Not unexpected, but a public display of it? O.M.G.

[BoristheBiter]

Bully for you. I see it differently.

Because you are a moron.

[Bean]

Many have loving caring parents .....

God I wish that was true

I ride my bike, in part, to blow away the filth and frustration that you can feel after spending your time working with young kids, health workers, case workers, lawyers, parents (noun - not verb). It often feels, as a teacher, that you are the only person in some children's lives, that actually gives a shit!! We feed them, provide uniform, care for them, make them feel safe and happy, AND teach. I even get littlies dropping to sleep, so I wrap them in a blanket and leave them be. I don’t wake them up for their lesson or standardised test so some shirt and tie can tell me I’m doing my job properly.

Don’t belittle the kids these days – I wouldn’t want to be them.

I do understand that in 10 years, my kids potential employers will require meaningful information about their attitude and aptitude, …. I have no answers to that, I certainly don’t think exams are the be all end all.

[avgas]

There's quite a bit of unsupported info in your posts. How do you know about all the graduates worldwide and others who don't know life's not all roses?

If you prepare for the worst, the best will pleasantly surprise you......and the worst is expected.
Life Lesson #342

Break things down to the lowest denomination. Chances are if you find one lower, others exist.
Life Lesson #237

I have met people whom a single exam has proven they are qualified (or not) for something. Myself included.

[avgas]

God I wish that was true

I ride my bike, in part, to blow away the filth and frustration that you can feel after spending your time working with young kids, health workers, case workers, lawyers, parents (noun - not verb). It often feels, as a teacher, that you are the only person in some children's lives, that actually gives a shit!! We feed them, provide uniform, care for them, make them feel safe and happy, AND teach. I even get littlies dropping to sleep, so I wrap them in a blanket and leave them be. I don’t wake them up for their lesson or standardised test so some shirt and tie can tell me I’m doing my job properly.

Don’t belittle the kids these days – I wouldn’t want to be them.

I do understand that in 10 years, my kids potential employers will require meaningful information about their attitude and aptitude, …. I have no answers to that, I certainly don’t think exams are the be all end all.

I envy you.
How do you know if your doing you job properly?

How would you know if someone was good at math or science or tiddlywinks?

Fact is that for everything bad about tests - they do make things simple - you pass or fail. If you fail you just need to try harder. Its not the end of the world. But its a good litmus test to see if they are doing well at something.

As for employers needing it - nope they don't directly need it - they need the result. I wasn't an engineer because of my school marks.......just that I ticked enough boxes to eventually get it. Did this subject in form 1.....this one in form 7......got a degree......got my pratical tickets.....got apprenticeships......then one day I looked back and when - Whoa! How did I get here - but there was a record telling me how.
I had no idea of the destination. I just did one test in front of another until I saw something forming on the other end. If I failed a test I tried harder.

Will my employer ever look at what my marks were? Nope - but if I was someone with no academic achievements would I be employed they way I am....probably not.

Tests have never been the problem, they are just tools. The application of learning is the problem. Can't blame a leaky house on the hammer.

[Bean]

If you fail you just need to try harder.

You have missed my point with this reply.

Try harder to stay awake?
Try harder to not feel hungry?
Try harder to warm up?
Try harder to believe you can do it, after being told you are a $%^# useless %^* ?
Try harder not to lean against the bruises on your back?
It would also help if an adult in the house would wake up in time to get the child to school!

Its not that hard to teach children the necessary curriculum if they come to school ready to learn!!! And assess them using standard measures... but isn't this thread about kids that are failing??

[BoristheBiter]

You have missed my point with this reply.

Try harder to stay awake?
Try harder to not feel hungry?
Try harder to warm up?
Try harder to believe you can do it, after being told you are a $%^# useless %^* ?
Try harder not to lean against the bruises on your back?
It would also help if an adult in the house would wake up in time to get the child to school!

Its not that hard to teach children the necessary curriculum if they come to school ready to learn!!! And assess them using standard measures... but isn't this thread about kids that are failing??

But what about the kids that are failing without those problems?
And should we just sit back and tolerate this?
Have you reported this to the cops, SW, etc?

[Bean]

But what about the kids that are failing without those problems?

That has, is, and always will be, the million dollar question. Our education system is designed for the masses and failure is inevitable in an imperfect sector (we didn’t fail from 1st place after all). It is my belief that our increased failure is largely a manifestation of the breakdown of communities, families and values that have been taken for granted, coinciding with the popularity of independence, selfishness and material possessions.

And should we just sit back and tolerate this?

No.

[Zedder]

If you prepare for the worst, the best will pleasantly surprise you......and the worst is expected.
Life Lesson #342

Break things down to the lowest denomination. Chances are if you find one lower, others exist.
Life Lesson #237

I have met people whom a single exam has proven they are qualified (or not) for something. Myself included.

Enough of the pseudo zen master crap, the last line was semi sufficient.

[BoristheBiter]

That has, is, and always will be, the million dollar question. Our education system is designed for the masses and failure is inevitable in an imperfect sector (we didn’t fail from 1st place after all). It is my belief that our increased failure is largely a manifestation of the breakdown of communities, families and values that have been taken for granted, coinciding with the popularity of independence, selfishness and material possessions.


No.

No we didn't fall from first, but we have fallen, a long way.

More a fault of successive governments fucking around with something that wasn't broke.

[Bean]

More a fault of successive governments fucking around with something that wasn't broke.

Maybe... tho the media has greater influence over culture and attitude than the government.

[oldrider]

Its not that hard to teach children the necessary curriculum if they come to school ready to learn!!! And assess them using standard measures... but isn't this thread about kids that are failing??

The necessary (Read compulsory) curriculum? .... maybe that is the source of the problem right there?

The best teachers in the world would make little difference to the student quality outcome if the curriculum was inappropriate!

Who sets the curriculum and who checks and approves it? (Worlds best quality computer still means garbage in is garbage out!)

[Bean]

oldrider, the point is about 10kms that way -->
You missed it...completely..utterly...not even close. Happy hunting

[oldrider]

I only asked a question ... how can that miss the point?

[Banditbandit]

Wrong. The answers to a set of questions isn't a formula. The marking of those answers doesn't require a formula. The only people requiring a formula are those wanting to alter the results to something other than an accurate assessment of a students knowledge.

And they prove how much of the syllabus a student has learned. At least well constructed exams do. Pretty obvious really.

The objective is to measure how much of the syllabus the kid’s learned. The correct way to do that is to set exams asking questions relating to the syllabus content.

You have a totally functionalist view of education. In that respect you are talking about training, not education.

I very much doubt they would tell you that their "Honors" students went on to get useless jobs that didn't require degrees, while the run of the mill students are now at senior level in the work force.
But that is pretty much what I am seeing (worldwide).

Most teachers will tell you that the best students fail. There are many reasons for that but also that is why the top performing students end up in dead end jobs while the "run of the mill" students or the drop outs end up at senior level in the workforce.

To be a top student is to accept the functional approach to education and do what you are told - Top students are well trained, like Pavlov's dogs ... the workforce only needs so many of them ...

To really get anywhere in this world you have to be able to think - school and university fails to teach those aspects and will do so as long as people like Ocean1 demand a functuional approach to education.

Because kids need some form of pressure.
They need to be taught that life is not all roses and kittens, and sometimes shit just jumps out in front of you and if you didn't plan for it - you're fucked.

Another lovely life lesson.

Crap - examinations do not do that. All they teach is how to pass exams - which once a person has left school and education will never have to be done ever again.

Why teach people a useless skill like how to pass examinations?

There are much better ways to assess people's skills and abilities.

The ability to pass examinations might you will get a job at Starbucks ... along with the rsst of Pavlov's dogs ... it will not get you a senior job in the workforce ...