Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[James Deuce]

Would the economic cost of that training be offset by a far lower cost to ACC?

No. Because your driver population would be about a 10th of what it is now and our economy would fail. Ask anyone if they think they are a good driver and you will be told emphatically that their giant penis or vagina says they are. My claims that Kiwis are poor drivers, especially when the lack of traffic density is taken into account (Aucklanders do not know how good they have it compared to any European or North American connurbation) is usually roundly pooh-hooed on KB, but making a roadcraft style exam the entry point for license training would mean most people would fail because their mindset is simply not up for the postive, ongoing critical self-evaluation required to maintain and improve your standards, and most people simply lack the vehicle control standards required to pass the test, and more importantly can't see the point of learning things they won't use every day.

The cost of motorcycling related ACC claims is minuscule compared to DIY claims and falling over in the bath claims. Minuscule. Targeting motorcyclists is simply using divide and conquer to make a political point about funding ACC. There aren't enough motorcyclists to make a difference at election time but everybody knows a motorcyclist and therefore knows how dodgy motorcyclists are and they deserve everything they get. Because they're dodgy and crash all the time and lane-split and belong to gangs and are blue collar Tui drinking types.

IAM Roadcraft is not for eveyone and every call to the Government to increase driver standards significantly is met with the blanket comment that advanced driver training causes accidents.

Quite frankly I think there is some sort of economic benefit to death and mutilation on the road otherwise causing an accident or driving under the influence wouldn't be viewed as non-criminal and of a lesser concern than white-collar crime.

[Crasherfromwayback]

It is understandable that the police would do this course as they would have to demonstrate confidence in a pursute situation at speeds far higher than what most people who speed would feel safe getting up to eg 150km/hr plus.

Lolololololol. Fuck yeah! I'd never dream of going that fast! Those police people are fucking legends. Awesome stuff...made my day.

[Gremlin]

Or do you not want to give out advise for free that you had to pay for?

IAM NZ is a registered charity. Essentially, observers donate their time and money (in bike, running costs etc) and the idea is that when you're up to speed, you're passing on those skills and knowledge. There is a yearly membership fee (going up to $50 next year I think), and on initial joining, around $50 as a test fee (once off). Test fee goes to the examiner when they take you for your advanced test, contributes to their costs, and bearing in mind examiners, at least in NZ, are running their own businesses usually around road training (be it car, motorcycle, or combination). Membership fee usage varies, but pays for materials, events, that sort of thing.

Giving out advice is tricky when you don't understand the system, and as probably said, trying to deliver by words in a forum is extremely difficult, without digging into the theory, referencing the material and suddenly you're writing essays. Feedback to associates (those working up to test standard) is individual based on assessment of their riding. The more social monthly runs are tailored by observers based on the progress of the individual, their experience, ability, the weather conditions etc. Observers or Trainee Observers may take out multiple associates, swapping them around, giving each a go at the front, giving feedback, then more riding looking at the areas that are being worked on etc. If someone has urban riding nailed, then more time in the country working on those skills, or vice versa. All this work takes multiple rides, associates are expected to work on their riding between runs etc. For associates assigned to an Observer, there is constant work between between the two (or multiple associates, add in a Trainee Observer as well) and the monthly runs are also used to mix up Observers and associates.

ie, it's an ongoing process, not even close to once off. I think procedures are also being put in place to ensure those that have passed are regularly tested as well, to make sure standards are maintained, amongst Observers as well. Everyone is continually trying to be better, but having the skills to assess your own riding is obviously fantastic.

As for pursuit training, IAM doesn't exactly cater here, as we don't do 150kph. However, forward observation, hazard identification etc are obviously vital skills. Not quite as relevant in NZ, but UK also makes extensive use of ambo bikes, and I think a couple of fire bikes have been trialed as well. In NZ, they're mostly used for events, where a bike can get through crowds far easier than a full blown ambo, but then you need medics with expertise in quite a few areas.

[ellipsis]

I've been following this thread with a bit of interest as it was just a nice heads up to a bloke who looked real comfortable and cruising within the limits and having a good time.

......


...'lax out...eyes open...your brain is in control of the right hand...if it's not, then your life is in the lap of the gods...and other peoples...you just dont wanna miss a thing...

[rastuscat]

Fast, relative to what?



Yes, if you're comparing a modern sports bike to an ill handling commuter car, van or SUV. Put a well setup Nissan GTR or Mitsubishi Evo with a very good driver up against any bike, and the cars will be able to corner much faster, especially in real world conditions where the roads are rough and littered with debris.

I rode my 1200RT through the hills south of Wakefield last evening. ESA set for me, Mrs Cat and our luggage, and set to sports setting.

I was following one of the new orange SV6 marked patrol cars, driven by an ex Brit Popo Highway Cop. The car has the coolest suspension. He's an advanced driver, and he knew I was there follwing him. He's a mate, we stayed at his place last night.

We sat between 85 and 100 through about 30 km of twisties. I didnt have to try hard to keep up, and he told me later that he was trying to not brake, despite pushing it a bit.

I tried nor to brake too. Smoothe is the new fadt when Mrs Cat is onboard.

My 4 year old tourer with mid level power , two up and with full luggage competed well with a new (smelled new inside) sports pac SV6.

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

[Howie]

...'lax out...eyes open...your brain is in control of the right hand...if it's not, then your life is in the lap of the gods...and other peoples...you just dont wanna miss a thing...

your point is? Yes the orginal thread was about someone out enjoying there ride. However So far as I can see from this thread The "IAM" riders are coming across as a secret society of arrogant motorcyclists that belong to a secret society. Do you have a secret wave??

[bogan]

If only 10% of the population could pass an IAMS test why are the other 90% not dying like flies on the road by your logic? Maybe just normal driving itself teaches most people what you guys need to do IAMS training for.

Most people think they are good enough, until they find out they are not...

I mean, if normal riding (this isn't fucking amateur hour, at least use the right name for it) taught for the IAMS test, then surely more than 10% would pass it

[ellipsis]

your point is? Yes the orginal thread was about someone out enjoying there ride. However So far as I can see from this thread The "IAM" riders are coming across as a secret society of arrogant motorcyclists that belong to a secret society. Do you have a secret wave??

...lost yer mate...(I.am) on my own...last advanced riding skills I ever did was passing my forever licence that cost me a dollar and fifty cents in 1973*...I did read in the road code from back then that looking around the place gave you some situational awareness and advantage...just sayin...

*since then have had 41 years of inexperience to build on...

[Headbanger]

I rode my 1200RT through the hills south of Wakefield last evening. ESA set for me, Mrs Cat and our luggage, and set to sports setting.

I was following one of the new orange SV6 marked patrol cars, driven by an ex Brit Popo Highway Cop. The car has the coolest suspension. He's an advanced driver, and he knew I was there follwing him. He's a mate, we stayed at his place last night.

We sat between 85 and 100 through about 30 km of twisties. I didnt have to try hard to keep up, and he told me later that he was trying to not brake, despite pushing it a bit.

I tried nor to brake too. Smoothe is the new fadt when Mrs Cat is onboard.

My 4 year old tourer with mid level power , two up and with full luggage competed well with a new (smelled new inside) sports pac SV6.

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

So neither of you were pushing it, and you stayed in visual proximity.

WOW.



There is so much variance in car design, driver capabilities and intent that imo this could only be approached from a physics angle, and I'd have no idea how to do that.

I could get my old XF ute through the Parapara faster 20 years ago then I'd go through nowadays on my bike......

[ellipsis]

...i could get my Morris Oxford to move me quicker 35 years ago, than I do now...so they say...

[jasonu]

I rode my 1200RT through the hills south of Wakefield last evening. ESA set for me, Mrs Cat and our luggage, and set to sports setting.

I was following one of the new orange SV6 marked patrol cars, driven by an ex Brit Popo Highway Cop. The car has the coolest suspension. He's an advanced driver, and he knew I was there follwing him. He's a mate, we stayed at his place last night.

We sat between 85 and 100 through about 30 km of twisties. I didnt have to try hard to keep up, and he told me later that he was trying to not brake, despite pushing it a bit.

I tried nor to brake too. Smoothe is the new fadt when Mrs Cat is onboard.

My 4 year old tourer with mid level power , two up and with full luggage competed well with a new (smelled new inside) sports pac SV6.

Bikes corner better than cars. They accelerate better out too. And are more fun too. IMHO.

Most cars dont handle like Godzillas or Evos.

Sorry mate that doesn't sound like a competition. More like a couple of mates riding/driving at a good comfortable clip is about it.

[Howie]

...lost yer mate...(I.am) on my own...last advanced riding skills I ever did was passing my forever licence that cost me a dollar and fifty cents in 1973*...*since then have had 41 years of inexperience to build on...

Fair enough, i'm about the same although it was 79 so I'm only at 34 years of inexperience. Yep I do tend to observe as I ride it tends to give one more time to react in an appropriate way

[ellipsis]

Although he would never admit it I wonder if any corners were cut during that trip for it to be so smooth without braking.

...why ...

[James Deuce]

your point is? Yes the orginal thread was about someone out enjoying there ride. However So far as I can see from this thread The "IAM" riders are coming across as a secret society of arrogant motorcyclists that belong to a secret society. Do you have a secret wave??

Good Lord! I hope you aren't including me in with the IAM bunch. I'm arrogant of my own recognisance. I only wave to myself and it is generally with one finger.

[Katman]

I agree they think they are faster and safer riders than anyone else. There is a side of me that would be keen to take up their challenge of doing a course but I would not do it for the simple reason that i would never feel any safer on the road even if I got a 100% pass and as another poster correctly points out it would create a an overconfident sense in ability which maybe some graduates of the school may have after passing.

From what I know of the IAM system there would be very little likelihood of anyone taking part in it for the wrong reasons.