Orange Street Triple R on Akaroa Highway? (2 January)

[Katman]

Your opinions are just that and your inability to consider other's approachs only further isolate you.

I like to shelter myself from the inherently retarded.

[Howie]

But I think Muppet knows a practitioner of Roadcraft when he sees it

I agree and I think that probably came with loads of training, expertise & experience.

You both seem to be inferring that Muppet has undertaken advanced rider/driver training which makes me think he may be a member of the NZ police or similar?

if so if the NZ police use any form of training related to the U.K. Police Roadcraft book I would be seriously looking at if it is good advice seeing as the NZ police have spent nearly $11 million over the last 4 years on police crashes where the Police are at fault.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news...tes-for-police or so this link says.

[Madness]

You both seem to be inferring that Muppet has undertaken advanced rider/driver training which makes me think he may be a member of the NZ police or similar?

Surely that would be up to him to divulge on here if it were the case and if he saw fit to.

if so if the NZ police use any form of training related to the U.K. Police Roadcraft book I would be seriously looking at if it is good advice seeing as the NZ police have spent nearly $11 million over the last 4 years on police crashes where the Police are at fault.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news...tes-for-police or so this link says.

By the same logic we should be looking at the NZ Road-Code as the 254 fatalities on NZ roads last year might suggest that this document is pants also? The generalisation in this thread is truly epic.

[skinman]

after killing some time as nothing good on tv reading this thread all I have to say is thank god cassina is in chch & I am highly unlikely to ever be on the same bit of road as he/she. Also seems to have fixated on the pillion story, has not considered the possibility that the rider had the skills to ride at what he considered a safe pace that was faster than the pillions ability allowed them to ride. I pillion my wife & do corner slower with her on the back so as not to frighten her but I have to get in the same bed afterwards.

[Howie]

Surely that would be up to him to divulge on here if it were the case and if he saw fit to.

You are quite correct that it is up to Muppet if he wants to disclose what he does for a living which is why I included the word "infer" in my previous post.


By the same logic we should be looking at the NZ Road-Code as the 254 fatalities on NZ roads last year might suggest that this document is pants also? The generalisation in this thread is truly epic.

[/QUOTE]

Actually though the road code is purly a set of rules to hopefully quide drivers in how they should operate a vehicle on the public road.

the worrying thing of course is that the Goverment may be basing it's stance on advanced driver training from the record of the Police who have had some form of such training.

[ckai]

Originally Posted by James Deuce
Lol. The last thing any Government wants is a competent driver base. There is a firm belief in NZ that advanced training simply enables drivers and riders to travel at much greater speeds competently thereby making the accident bigger. IAM Roadcraft is based on UK Police roadcraft guidelines. It has substantial literature and practical guidelines thereby rendering it uninteresting to the LTNZ, particularly as its testing guidelines insist on independence from Government intervention thereby qualifying it as non-revenue raising advanced rider training.

Not sure if this is his personal belief but the fact he says its a firm belief in NZ just goes to prove that faster speeds despite having training do not improve safety
with the coment the accidents will be bigger. So I am far from alone in my thinking there is no such thing as being fast and safe. You guys need to look at vehicle crash test data to see how less safe a person is the faster the impact but if IAMS training brainwashes you to think otherwise think otherwise at your peril.

Thank you for the quote. Here's one you may like:

competent
ˈkɒmpɪt(ə)nt/
adjective
[COLOR=#878787 !important][/COLOR]

• 1.
  having the necessary ability, knowledge, or skill to do something successfully.
  [COLOR=#878787 !important]"a highly competent surgeon"[/COLOR]
  
  

Do you think this could possibly go hand in hand with, say, oh I don't know, crash avoidance? Thereby making any competent road user a safer road user?

I'll give you another "firm belief in NZ". It is a firm belief in NZ to speed up on passing lanes and slow down when the lanes finish. What about, it is a firm belief in NZ that BMW's only have indicators as an optional extra?

You make the point that there is no such thing as being fast and safe. What you should be arguing is the physics not the persons ability. Yes, physics dictate that the faster you go the more shit hits the fan when things go bad and you hit something. But let me again bring in the fighter pilot. He's flying a plane at 100 km/h. He's used to flying it at 1000km/h. Apart from the fact he's bored as shit, because his ability and skill set enable him to pilot a plane at 1000km/h he has all the time in the world (compared to flying at his normal speed) to react to any crap that could happen. He's scanning so far out in front, it's ridiculous. His peripheral vision is so fucken wide he could see shit coming behind him.

Ability.

Now, you're flying a plane at the same speed. You're not Mr fighter pilot and you think 100km/h is warp speed. Everything is rushed to you. You have no time to process anything. Your brain is mush and is a blur of information. Because you think this speed is already too fast, if anything happens to you, your equipment, or something comes in front of you, because you don't have the ability of the fighter pilot, your brain tells you you're already fucked. Should we now get you to fly at 1000 km/h? The same speed where the fighter pilot feels at home and his brain still works better than yours at 100km/h?

Ability.

The argument here has never been about physics but about ability.

Let's just take a step back and see where this thread started.

For a start, Muppet clearly can't tell the difference between a racer and an ex pat POM with Road craft experience - or any other sort of motorcyclist for the matter.

He then goes on to praise the philosophy of staying wide as long as possible in a corner before 'powering out'.

The reality is that, if you stay wide right throughout a corner and then attempt to 'power out', chances are you will end up running off the side of the corner you are powering out of.

This whole thread was fucked right from post #1.

Let's ignore that fact that even you would look far enough ahead and assess the circumference of the corner as well as when you can't see the exit of the corner. Damn the OP not explaining the whole process down to the last minute detail about another cornering technique when it was actually about praising another rider. Damn him! Damn him to hell!

[James Deuce]

I don't understand. Am I in trouble or not, and should I just eat cat food to improve my performance?

[Hawk]

I don't understand. Am I in trouble or not, and should I just eat cat food to improve my performance?

eat the cat food

[James Deuce]

Roger Wilco, good buddy. I AMS out to buy IAMS. And Spinach. I AMS what I AMS.

[BigAl]

Woof Woof............

[Geeen]

Lets take Ckai's argument about the fighter pilot and transfer it to a F1 car. The car is DESIGNED to work in a particular speed zone, the driver of that car has the Ability to process information at the required speed to make that vehicle work. Joe Bloggs Public does NOT have the brain speed or Ability to be in the speed zone the vehicle is designed to be in. This means that the brakes, tyres and aero are not performing as they were designed to making the vehicle LESS SAFE. So in this instance it IS safer to go faster. The majority of people dont have the Ability to live in this world of speed.

Aside from that, what I've read from what the I A M trained riders on this thread have being saying is more about situational awareness, Vision, hazard detection and self improvement rather than being elitist speed merchants.. But thats just me

[Monkfish]

You comment is quite funny that speed limits have been set the way they are to protect mentally disabled drivers/riders and I have often heard it said that those that travel above the speed limit are lunatics with a death wish meaning they are mentally impaired as well. I also exceed the safe limit like you IAMs guys but the big difference is I am aware there is a safety trade off and for that reason I am far from excessive with the time I spend over it.

Please actually read a post before commenting. although I suspect you are incapable, as your assumptions astound.

I say nothing of speed limits! not mentioned at all. I never even insinuate that the limits should be broken in any way, nor did i state i have done any IAMS course, which I have not.

However speed recommendations (the little signs that say the approaching corner is a 55kph corner) are undeniably and matter of factually, there to give road users with insufficient skill a RECOMMENDATION on how they might pick a speed to negotiate that corner safely. that is fact.

your claim that to do anything other than the recommended speed is unsafe is laughable as are most of your arguments.

PS please note i was using the mentally challenged as an extreme (but entirely truthful) example of the architecture of the system you love.

[Monkfish]

It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe. I would have possibly praised the rider too but would have left any claim of going fast being safe. Planes can collide in mid air too so your argument does not wash there. Is there any speed you get up to where you no longer feel safe as opposed to less safe or is there just no such thing in your book as being less safe irrespective of the speed you are travelling?

Really?? you dismissed the entire argument on relativity because..... Sometimes planes crash into each other??????

OMG there really is no talking to you.

[roogazza]

Some people . He has so much talent,he said so !
If you have time watch this and the ending.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtofbxmlv8Y

[ckai]

It was another poster that critisized the cornering techqnique I was just attacking the claim about fast being safe when it reality is less safe. I would have possibly praised the rider too but would have left any claim of going fast being safe. Planes can collide in mid air too so your argument does not wash there. Is there any speed you get up to where you no longer feel safe as opposed to less safe or is there just no such thing in your book as being less safe irrespective of the speed you are travelling?

I know it was another rider that criticised the cornering technique, hence why I quoted them and discussed that issue with them. And why I didn't mention anything about cornering with what I was discussing with you. Multi-talented - 2 discussions at once.

From the original post:

"You were smooth, fast and safe"

I don't believe Muppet was saying fast was safe. To be honest I believe he's made a grammatical by missing a a comma (also known as the oxford comma) which is extremely common and something that I always did only until recently.

What I believe he meant to say was:

"You were smooth, fast, and safe"

I believe he was referring to his cornering technique and smoothness for the reason for him being safe.

Or, putting it another way, his ABILITY.

You have also completely missed my point regarding planes. You seem to be fixated on equipment. Would you like me to give you another example with 2 people running, completely naked, on a completely perfectly flat surface without any imperfections? Would this help you understand my point, and pretty much everyone else's point, of ability? I would be more than happy to for you to understand and make it simple.

As for my personal ability with regards to speed. Let's take something I know reasonably well, bicycling or more specifically BMXing. I used to race these for years since I was 7. Now, because I raced, my ability was developed for speed with shit happening all around me. The longest race was 40 seconds. It's fucken fast. If you haven't watch a race and you'll get what I mean.

Anyway, I can't ride slow. I have exceptional balance but I've never developed my ability to ride slow. Never needed to never wanted to.

It was SAFER for me to ride FASTER because the risks were less with my ABILITY. When mountain biking, I have broken bones from riding slow, rather than when I'm riding faster. This is how my ability has been developed.

Let's bring this back to you. How SAFE do you feel riding at walking speed or SLOWER as opposed to, say, 50 km/h? Both situations no thing is around you?