To all the haters out there

[SMOKEU]

"There is a quantitative benefit in having additional interest or demand, but this is in no way exponential." So it is a linear pyramid instead of an exponential one. Still means increasing demand increases value of a limited supply.

Except for the fact that the value is prone to exponential decreases in value during a very short period of time. If you keep track of the Bitcoin values over a long term period you'd see that the prices often don't reflect the hash rate or number of "investors".

[bogan]

Except for the fact that the value is prone to exponential decreases in value during a very short period of time. If you keep track of the Bitcoin values over a long term period you'd see that the prices often don't reflect the hash rate or number of "investors".

I thought hash rate was the money velocity?

[SMOKEU]

I thought hash rate was the money velocity?

It's the amount of "work" or processing power that a particular miner, group of miners or total Bitcoin network has. You can see on bitcoincharts.com what the current hash rate is. This increases as more miners join the network, and when mining hardware becomes more powerful.

Check out the hash rate and move your mouse over the graph line https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-...ale=0&address=

The first significant hash rate increase in mid 2012 was when FPGA miners started becoming popular. The explosive growth in mid 2013 was when ASIC miners first started shipping, especially from BFL.

[bogan]

It's the amount of "work" or processing power that a particular miner, group of miners or total Bitcoin network has. You can see on bitcoincharts.com what the current hash rate is. This increases as more miners join the network, and when mining hardware becomes more powerful.

Check out the hash rate and move your mouse over the graph line https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-...ale=0&address=

The first significant hash rate increase in mid 2012 was when FPGA miners started becoming popular. The explosive growth in mid 2013 was when ASIC miners first started shipping, especially from BFL.

Ah yup, so neither money velocity or money supply.

Anyway, I found this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral which is what I keep referring to but worded more betterer

"Elaborate controls to make sure that currency is not produced in greater numbers is not something any other currency, like the dollar or the euro, has," says Russ Roberts, professor of economics at George Mason University. The consequence will likely be slow and steady deflation, as the growth in circulating bitcoins declines and their value rises. "That is considered very destructive in today's economies, mostly because when it occurs, it is unexpected," says Roberts. But he thinks that won't apply in an economy where deflation is expected. "In a Bitcoin world, everyone would anticipate that, and they know what they got paid would buy more then than it would now."

[SMOKEU]

Ah yup, so neither money velocity or money supply.

Anyway, I found this https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Deflationary_spiral which is what I keep referring to but worded more betterer

"Elaborate controls to make sure that currency is not produced in greater numbers is not something any other currency, like the dollar or the euro, has," says Russ Roberts, professor of economics at George Mason University. The consequence will likely be slow and steady deflation, as the growth in circulating bitcoins declines and their value rises. "That is considered very destructive in today's economies, mostly because when it occurs, it is unexpected," says Roberts. But he thinks that won't apply in an economy where deflation is expected. "In a Bitcoin world, everyone would anticipate that, and they know what they got paid would buy more then than it would now."

Now that seems more realistic. An interesting thing to note is that the final block is estimated to be mined in 2140 based on the block reward halving every 4 years.

There is also an FAQ wiki that is a good read. The wiki goes on to state:

" Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme?

In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adopters profit from the rise in value. Late adopters, and indeed, society as a whole, benefit from the usefulness of a stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted p2p currency.

The fact that early adopters benefit more doesn't alone make anything a Ponzi scheme. All good investments in successful companies have this quality. "

[bogan]

Now that seems more realistic. An interesting thing to note is that the final block is estimated to be mined in 2140 based on the block reward halving every 4 years.

There is also an FAQ wiki that is a good read. The wiki goes on to state:

" Is Bitcoin a Ponzi scheme?

In a Ponzi Scheme, the founders persuade investors that they’ll profit. Bitcoin does not make such a guarantee. There is no central entity, just individuals building an economy.

A ponzi scheme is a zero sum game. Early adopters can only profit at the expense of late adopters. Bitcoin has possible win-win outcomes. Early adopters profit from the rise in value. Late adopters, and indeed, society as a whole, benefit from the usefulness of a stable, fast, inexpensive, and widely accepted p2p currency.

The fact that early adopters benefit more doesn't alone make anything a Ponzi scheme. All good investments in successful companies have this quality. "

Nah it isn't a ponzi scheme. But there is a lot of pyramid scheme aspects to it, simply because the currency increases in value the more demand there is for it. As long as demand increases for it as an investment, those with money already invested in it will profit. Ie, it is very much in the investors interest to see more investors to come on board. Now why is it designed with that as a feature?

[SMOKEU]

Nah it isn't a ponzi scheme. But there is a lot of pyramid scheme aspects to it, simply because the currency increases in value the more demand there is for it. As long as demand increases for it as an investment, those with money already invested in it will profit. Ie, it is very much in the investors interest to see more investors to come on board. Now why is it designed with that as a feature?

In saying all that, I guess you do have a valid point.

Things are just not quite as black and white as people like to make out Bitcoin to be. I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money to put down a deposit for a house from Bitcoin. But that's just wishful thinking for now.

[bogan]

In saying all that, I guess you do have a valid point.

Things are just not quite as black and white as people like to make out Bitcoin to be. I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money to put down a deposit for a house from Bitcoin. But that's just wishful thinking for now.

Yeh, and it's a bit hazy on what will actually happen when the deflationary spiral is a known event. Like will people buy low now/soonish, wait for the spiral to ramp up, then sell big, thus crashing the prices. Or will the spiral drive the currency into stagnation and disuse instead. Really hard for anyone to predict because it's a new thing.

But, the thing the raises alarm bells with me, is the 21mil limit, why put that in there unless deflation is an objective...

[Akzle]

I do wonder what the long term future is going to be with Bitcoin. Hopefully in a few years I'll have enough money...

invest in an AK and a phat stack of bullets yo.
Thats the only shit will help you through the 'transition'

[SMOKEU]

Yeh, and it's a bit hazy on what will actually happen when the deflationary spiral is a known event. Like will people buy low now/soonish, wait for the spiral to ramp up, then sell big, thus crashing the prices. Or will the spiral drive the currency into stagnation and disuse instead. Really hard for anyone to predict because it's a new thing.

But, the thing the raises alarm bells with me, is the 21mil limit, why put that in there unless deflation is an objective...

People have been known to manipulate the markets like that by selling off a large number of Bitcoins when the price is high, causing panic selling. Thus, once the price has dropped significantly and stabilized from its excessive "sink rate", they buy up big and wait for the next one. Which could take 6 months. Or 2 years. Or fuck knows.

Of possible interest to you could be the Economics subforum on Bitcointalk.

As for your last point, I don't really have an answer. It would require someone who happens to be really jewish, or knowledgeable about Bitcoin.

invest in an AK and a phat stack of bullets yo.
Thats the only shit will help you through the 'transition'

I would love an AK, but unfortunately the cops are being a buzz kill and won't let me have one.

There are still some mean A cat guns around. A Saiga 12 would be nice, or a Benelli 12ga semi auto.

[bogan]

[Mental Trousers]

A second theft can't be good for the value of your bitcoins

http://flexcoin.com/

[SMOKEU]

A second theft can't be good for the value of your bitcoins

http://flexcoin.com/

Another one bites the dust.

The hack wasn't big enough to put a major dent in the BTC value.

[Scuba_Steve]

I would love an AK, but unfortunately the cops are being a buzz kill and won't let me have one.

Why do you need permission??? An AK is it's own permission
I'm sure Akzle didn't ask permission for any of his firearms & especially not from criminal gangs such as the

[Akzle]

Why do you need permission??? An AK is it's own permission
I'm sure Akzle didn't ask permission for any of his firearms & especially not from criminal gangs such as the

i dont have an AK