How to grow the future of road racing in New Zealand

[scott411]

You are right Chop, there is a lot that ISNT broken. Im not going to regurgitate in full what I have said in a number of previous threads but one of the main issues is that we don't have a credible feeder class from 250 through to 600. Some structure with bikes with some responsive chassis adjustments and a tutoring structure in place will work. There are a number of industry people including myself who have already put a lot of time and money into conceptualising such a class. This is very much a work in progress.

This is about attracting people from outside of the sport to make it all a whole lot less intimidating to get racing. Not so much of looking from within and all its prejudices. Start on 250s to learn race skills and how to ride a bike, progress to CBR500 Cup where you will learn much needed suspension and chassis setup skills ( including structured classroom tutorials as part of the package with a top rider and a technician )

Ex motocross riders are a good group to target as are everyday riders who have bought many of these machines en masse. Indeed there is dealer support for such a series as long as the costs can be kept manageable.

how is this different from the Pro Twin class, where you have basically open suspension?? and already has good numbers in it? and a good supply of bikes still available new for it,

PS: Ex Motocross riders will not find this class attractive unless someone else is paying, as the bikes are to slow, a decent ex motocrosser that has ridden 450's will go into 600's, or convert their current bike to a motard bike and go from there, (Choppa went straight to 600's, Toby Summers and Scotty Moir went via Motards)

the biggest thing about getting MX riders across is how expensive it is to practice and race compared to racing dirt bikes,

[jellywrestler]

250 Production ( To be changed to 300 in future)

why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...

[steveyb]

We are not running one this season Shaun, for the last five years we made a loss (since its been run at HD and no other 'local' track is suitable or permitable) and we weren't prepared to do that again. A difficult decision to make but representing over 450 members we had to consider the bigger picture. Contry to popular belief a large membership does not mean we make heaps of money.

We tried vairous models of event organisation believing the Nationals to be more than a bike race for quicker riders but more of an event for the whole family and put on attractions and side shows to help accomodate the whole family but the cost of the venue and periferals made it un-achievable to run it at cost let alone in the black without a massive entry fee for riders. Our vision for the event was for it to grow in popularity encouraging more public through the gates in the hope of actually lowering the entry fees for riders.

We are still very keen to be involved at National level but things have to be different in terms of the current buisness model. MNZ are aware of our position and our concerns re affordability etc and we will meet in the 'off season' to nut this one out.

The flip side to this is as I have said from a club level perspective our racing numbers have increased, from a National perspective our rider representation has increased and from an international perspective our rider representation is increasing.
KG

I know very well that the financial structures are different, and it is a one-off event, but has anyone seen the elephant in the room here, that AMCC can make money or at least lose a cuff or a sleeve running their club championship at the same venue, but lose their shirt running NZSBK? Why should that be?

I do agree with Choppa that at the moment the sporting side of the sport seems to be in rude health.

But the management side does seem to be letting the side down, on the face of it at least. That might be due to rules, environment, personalities, combination of, or other factors.

My comment therefore, is that I think it would be worth working a bt harder on exposure and marketing of what we do for a couple/3 years and then see if the management side actually does need modifying.

There will ALWAYS be screwups, rules issues etc, that is just life, nothing is every perfect nor can it forsee every eventuality. But at the end of the day, exposure will grow our market share and growing market share will produce numbers and numbers will allow the improved class structures to become established and the sport thereafter to grow.

But after the tragic events of this past weekend, I personally am strongly considering walking away from bikes and esp racing altogether and might therefore just leave youse all to it. We'll see.

[Shaun Harris]

but after the tragic events of this past weekend, I personally am strongly considering walking away from bikes and esp racing altogether and might therefore just leave youse all to it. We'll see.

Are you ok? and I for one hope not Steve you have to much to offer to the game

[Shaun Harris]

why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...

300 was in reference to given time re name change as all makes are heading there as per Kawasaki and yea the 500 thing will take time or a well set up plan to make it work as I think it would need a minimum of 15 bikes on the grid to start with and within a year will grow well if the class is recognised as a class in the NZ Champs and I also realise you cannot just keep introducing classes either so again ????? Is this class a part of the way forward to go with our sport, and do we or rather what class do we have to drop to cater for it?


Main heading at top of all classes Rules

NO changes will be made to these rules for 3 years from the date of ------------ untill ------------------------------------------------

Not mentioned do not touch or add

Fuel
Engine ( ref bore size) STD over size only.

250/300
500
F2
F1
Sidecars

[Shaun Harris]

We are not running one this season Shaun, for the last five years we made a loss (since its been run at HD and no other 'local' track is suitable or permitable) and we weren't prepared to do that again. A difficult decision to make but representing over 450 members we had to consider the bigger picture. Contry to popular belief a large membership does not mean we make heaps of money.

We tried vairous models of event organisation believing the Nationals to be more than a bike race for quicker riders but more of an event for the whole family and put on attractions and side shows to help accomodate the whole family but the cost of the venue and periferals made it un-achievable to run it at cost let alone in the black without a massive entry fee for riders. Our vision for the event was for it to grow in popularity encouraging more public through the gates in the hope of actually lowering the entry fees for riders.

We are still very keen to be involved at National level but things have to be different in terms of the current buisness model. MNZ are aware of our position and our concerns re affordability etc and we will meet in the 'off season' to nut this one out.

The flip side to this is as I have said from a club level perspective our racing numbers have increased, from a National perspective our rider representation has increased and from an international perspective our rider representation is increasing.
KG

Fantastic re AMCC membership growing and entries increasing at events buddy. Are you able too post a spread sheet involving the break down of operating costs or is that club member info only mate. Hey how many personell do you guys need per day to run a Nationals round also buddy, everyone total please

[budda]

300 was in reference to given time re name change as all makes are heading there as per Kawasaki and yea the 500 thing will take time or a well set up plan to make it work as I think it would need a minimum of 15 bikes on the grid to start with and within a year will grow well if the class is recognised as a class in the NZ Champs and I also realise you cannot just keep introducing classes either so again ????? Is this class a part of the way forward to go with our sport, and do we or rather what class do we have to drop to cater for it?


Main heading at top of all classes Rules

NO changes will be made to these rules for 3 years from the date of ------------ untill ------------------------------------------------

Not mentioned do not touch

Fuel
Engine ( ref bore size) STD over size only.

250/300
500
F2
F1
Sidecars

Now lets not get the cart before the horse Shaun - You, I'm sure, are well aware where these noncessant rule changes come from - THE RIDERS in the main. Rule changes are put forward for consideration : not all get through, but very very few do not come via riders feedback and/or suggestion.

Its not easy trying to keep seriously conflicting personalities happy, and a mistake to try sometimes - but that's why the Commissioner is on the BIG BUCKS

And that is why I resisted the pressure from on high to move to a single Commissioner from a 5 man Commission ......... logic would say rules written by a group with over 170 years of Champs level racing and 29 ( from memory ) Championships would be pretty watertight and "interpretation - proof" ..... clearly not

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Fantastic re AMCC membership growing and entries increasing at events buddy. Are you able too post a spread sheet involving the break down of operating costs or is that club member info only mate. Hey how many personell do you guys need per day to run a Nationals round also buddy, everyone total please

Shaun i'm not going to break it down verbatim on here MNZ have a detailed financial analasis of the event all bound inc some colour pics :-)

Total cost of the event $75,651.02..............blimy it all went quiet!!

Number of personel involved per day (there is/was three)
31 track side marshals.........mmm it all went quiet again!
Cheif Mashal
CoC, Steward + assisstant
starter
dummy grid chief + assistant
race sec + assistant
Pits Marshal x 2
Machine examiners x 2 - then used for other roles
For Hampton Downs a Yellow Line spotter
Assistant to tech inspector
2 x fully equiped first response paramedic ambos & personel
2 x machine recovery (one capable of side car recovery)
Commentator/s
Gate personel x 4 (vehicle/pedestrian)
1 x VIP liaison for life members & dignitaries
3 x Timing personel (Tim & Co)
1 x Trade and off track entertainment liason
track dressing and tear down crew (incorporated from some of the above)

There will be more but I cant think of who at the moment ( I'm supposed to be working )

[Shaun Harris]

Shaun i'm not going to break it down verbatim on here MNZ have a detailed financial analasis of the event all bound inc some colour pics :-)

Total cost of the event $75,651.02..............blimy it all went quiet!!

Number of personel involved per day (there is/was three)
31 track side marshals.........mmm it all went quiet again!
Cheif Mashal
CoC, Steward + assisstant
starter
dummy grid chief + assistant
race sec + assistant
Pits Marshal x 2
Machine examiners x 2 - then used for other roles
For Hampton Downs a Yellow Line spotter
Assistant to tech inspector
2 x fully equiped first response paramedic ambos & personel
2 x machine recovery (one capable of side car recovery)
Commentator/s
Gate personel x 4 (vehicle/pedestrian)
1 x VIP liaison for life members & dignitaries
3 x Timing personel (Tim & Co)
1 x Trade and off track entertainment liason
track dressing and tear down crew (incorporated from some of the above)

There will be more but I cant think of who at the moment ( I'm supposed to be working )

Thanks for the well detailed reply mate.

Can you elaberate on fees taken in ie final budget breakdown " So the losses involved" ?

[Kiwi Graham:Me]

Thanks for the well detailed reply mate.

Can you elaberate on fees taken in ie final budget breakdown " So the losses involved" ?

Total income from entry fee's, sponsorship and gate takings + $61,773.00

Mate, when your next up in the big smoke give me a call and I'd be happy to go through the event with you.

[Robert Taylor]

how is this different from the Pro Twin class, where you have basically open suspension?? and already has good numbers in it? and a good supply of bikes still available new for it,

PS: Ex Motocross riders will not find this class attractive unless someone else is paying, as the bikes are to slow, a decent ex motocrosser that has ridden 450's will go into 600's, or convert their current bike to a motard bike and go from there, (Choppa went straight to 600's, Toby Summers and Scotty Moir went via Motards)

the biggest thing about getting MX riders across is how expensive it is to practice and race compared to racing dirt bikes,

The numbers in Pro Twins is not that flash and the class is pretty stagnant. Whilst you are allowed rear shocks with every possible adjustment you are restricted to the 1950s technology damper rod forks that these sorts of bikes are cursed with. You are allowed springs and Race Tech emulators. These are still crude and afford no external damping adjusters. The pathway needs to be such that there are bikes with such adjusters that are responsive and will instil setup skills. This before riders progress to a 600 and feel totally like a fish out of water.

If ''someone else is paying'' thats it then isnt it? Time a lot of riders realised that the distributors etc dont owe them a living.

[Robert Taylor]

Jeepers Doc - with a little creative editing there, it sounds like you're talking about F450's

Absolutely not, those engines are not made for such an environment

[Robert Taylor]

why change, at the moment there's a number of cheap 250's out there and hyosungs won't be a starter then, move to 300's and how long before bikes will be cheap enough to fill the grids, or is everyone going to have to buy new?
the 500 one make thing is interesting but right now the only option is to have a new bike, there's no second hand ones to either build one from nor gain parts if you bin them, seems too expensive right from the get go...

Sounds brutal but you attract people that will buy and race these, by looking outwards, not inwards.

[budda]

Absolutely not, those engines are not made for such an environment

Inarguable logic - similarly, beggars belief that High-End Zoot-Capri boingers and clickers are made for bottom-dwellers' commuter bikes

[Robert Taylor]

Inarguable logic - similarly, beggars belief that High-End Zoot-Capri boingers and clickers are made for bottom-dwellers' commuter bikes

EJC500 used Andreani cartridges and Ohlins rear shocks, Jake Lewis will happily concur. The Andreani cartridges are VERY affordable and the prototype NITRON rear shock we have made mimics the character of the Ohlins shock but at around 60% of the price. Thats positive and proactive.
BTW such bikes as Ninja 250 / 300 also have aftermarket listings for cartridges and shocks. Manufacturers will only make such stuff if there is sizable worldwide demand, which there is. Not every country has its head in the sand.