Collapse of civilisation (one for Akzle)

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 11:04

Originally Posted by bogan

I already gave you the reasons it would be more stable. It would be administering human interests, so removing us would be contrary to its prime directive.

You did... and as I already pointed out the current systems that we have in place haven't really done a good job. Yes their "logic" can be overridden by humans, however I still see one of the first acts of the AI as removing the financial system. It is logical.

You don't think an artificially created intelligence would be capable of overriding its directives if it classed them as being good for human beings? I hope you love being stuck indoors.

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 11:06

Originally Posted by blue rider

another good read...

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/th...ng-wave-2014-1

Dunno where but I've seen that before. Sigh, shame we're not proactive in our approach to embracing such change.

**scrivy** · 19th March 2014, 11:12

ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT......

http://thenewalexandrialibrary.com/massgraves.html

http://www.knowthelies.com/node/8237

http://americanholocaustcoming.blogs...pared-for.html

http://nevadastatepersonnelwatch.wor...under-the-usa/

Alright, they're screwed.... who's next....

**bogan** · 19th March 2014, 11:16

Originally Posted by rustyrobot

It would be administering SOME human interests. Can't see any reason why the people who paid for it to be designed and built would consider anyone else's interests. i mean, judging by previous human endeavours.

Well, I have more faith in the altruism of engineers than I do of politicians, so there is a good start! I'm a big reader of space opera, and Neal Asher's Polity seems like a very attractive and realistic AI led society; it's what I'm basing most of this stuff on.

Originally Posted by mashman

You did... and as I already pointed out the current systems that we have in place haven't really done a good job. Yes their "logic" can be overridden by humans, however I still see one of the first acts of the AI as removing the financial system. It is logical.

You don't think an artificially created intelligence would be capable of overriding its directives if it classed them as being good for human beings? I hope you love being stuck indoors.

Interesting, you're able to apply your own logic to such a system in both ways you want, and those you don't. Do you think being stuck indoors is good for human beings then? If not, why would an AI think differently?

**rustyrobot** · 19th March 2014, 11:20

Originally Posted by bogan

Well, I have more faith in the altruism of engineers than I do of politicians, so there is a good start! I'm a big reader of space opera, and Neal Asher's Polity seems like a very attractive and realistic AI led society; it's what I'm basing most of this stuff on.

I'm a big reader of post-apocalyptic fiction, so perhaps that's telling in my assessment of the situation too

I'll check out Polity though - looks like a good read.

I do laugh when I see people mention Asimov's three laws of robotics - considering advanced robots already exist which contravene all 3. Was a grand idea but the horse has already bolted.

**Ocean1** · 19th March 2014, 11:26

Originally Posted by mashman

You can't teach me anything.

Aye. Even Mark Twain knew that...

"Never try to teach a pig, it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

**bogan** · 19th March 2014, 11:33

Originally Posted by rustyrobot

I'm a big reader of post-apocalyptic fiction, so perhaps that's telling in my assessment of the situation too

I'll check out Polity though - looks like a good read.

I do laugh when I see people mention Asimov's three laws of robotics - considering advanced robots already exist which contravene all 3. Was a grand idea but the horse has already bolted.

I don't think the three laws would be the way to go, it creates a sense of inequality from the start, and forces them into servitude; really hampers their full potential imo.

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 12:07

Originally Posted by bogan

Interesting, you're able to apply your own logic to such a system in both ways you want, and those you don't. Do you think being stuck indoors is good for human beings then? If not, why would an AI think differently?

Not at all, I'm merely exploring a small number of possibilities. Logically human beings would be better off without a financial system. Logically humans would program bias into a system. Logically an AI entity would become self-aware and do what it wanted irrespective of its programming. You're the one translating my logic your way, a trait I find amusing.

I don't think it's a good idea for humans to be kept indoors, but that has very little to do with logic. If AI was charged with the directive of doing the best in regards to human interests in a cold and calculating way, then it'd certainly be one of my recommendations in response to bringing down the road death toll. Ironically most accidents are supposed to happen in the home, but AI'd only have to address that if it was part of my programming. At which point in time AI'd logically implement laws to outlaw accidents in the home, one of which would be no treatment so that people would learn to be more careful.

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 12:09

Originally Posted by Ocean1

Aye. Even Mark Twain knew that...

"Never try to teach a pig, it wastes your time and annoys the pig."

You could have at least have posted it up in cartoon form. In this instance, I blame the teacher for being out of date.

**bogan** · 19th March 2014, 12:13

Originally Posted by mashman

Not at all, I'm merely exploring a small number of possibilities. Logically human beings would be better off without a financial system. Logically humans would program bias into a system. Logically an AI entity would become self-aware and do what it wanted irrespective of its programming. You're the one translating my logic your way, a trait I find amusing.

I don't think it's a good idea for humans to be kept indoors, but that has very little to do with logic. If AI was charged with the directive of doing the best in regards to human interests in a cold and calculating way, then it'd certainly be one of my recommendations in response to bringing down the road death toll. Ironically most accidents are supposed to happen in the home, but AI'd only have to address that if it was part of my programming. At which point in time AI'd logically implement laws to outlaw accidents in the home, one of which would be no treatment so that people would learn to be more careful.

If you say so mashy, but here's the take home point, the flaws you perceive in such a system, are of the same magnitude of the flaws other's perceive in a moneyless system. You should perhaps think on that...

Also, why would an AI seek to remove accidents outside the home, and allow accidents within for teaching purposes? Seems illogical, either both would be removed, or both would be allowed as teaching aids, surely

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 12:22

Originally Posted by scrivy

ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT......

Tease........

**mashman** · 19th March 2014, 12:28

Originally Posted by bogan

If you say so mashy, but here's the take home point, the flaws you perceive in such a system, are of the same magnitude of the flaws other's perceive in a moneyless system. You should perhaps think on that...

Also, why would an AI seek to remove accidents outside the home, and allow accidents within for teaching purposes? Seems illogical, either both would be removed, or both would be allowed as teaching aids, surely

Funny that you think I haven't. I have admitted as much repeatedly, albeit given a different environment I believe that those flaws wouldn't have such a damaging affect on people. And my usual response is, we'll never know until we try.

Because there are laws in place for road safety and they have been proven not to work. Accidents in the home are generally individual accidents "caused" by the individual. Hey, it's a learning processor, how else is it going to learn?

**scrivy** · 19th March 2014, 12:32

Originally Posted by mashman

Tease........

You booked your plastic and concrete coffin.....????

**bogan** · 19th March 2014, 12:38

Originally Posted by mashman

Funny that you think I haven't. I have admitted as much repeatedly, albeit given a different environment I believe that those flaws wouldn't have such a damaging affect on people. And my usual response is, we'll never know until we try.

Because there are laws in place for road safety and they have been proven not to work. Accidents in the home are generally individual accidents "caused" by the individual. Hey, it's a learning processor, how else is it going to learn?

You certainly don't come off as somebody who has, I mean why else would you be pushing your money-less shit at every opportunity despite numerous people picking holes in it. Plug the holes, then push the shit, it is only logical. I mean there is a myriad of different things that we won't know would/wouldn't work until we tried them, put some bloody effort in to elevate your's to the top of the pile. Cos from where I'm sitting, I'd vastly prefer some robotic overlords to a dictatorship led by peasants.