I'm thinking of getting into dirt. What bike?

[Jay GTI]

All very valid points and I don't dissagree with any of them. Me saying 450's rock is simply what I think of 'em. I love them and can't wait to get another.

Yeah I've been on a few and that monster horsepower in any gear at any revs feeling is awesome. Plus, regardless of how valid my points are, Brett will still buy a 450...

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah I've been on a few and that monster horsepower in any gear at any revs feeling is awesome. Plus, regardless of how valid my points are, Brett will still buy a 450...

Yep. I ride in sand a lot...so they're the only choice for me other than a 500cc two stroke.

[leathel]

Yeah I've been on a few and that monster horsepower in any gear at any revs feeling is awesome. Plus, regardless of how valid my points are, Brett will still buy a 450...

And only after he has a 450 will he know if it was a good move or not... he will either be able to handle it, have enough throttle control not end up off the track and not be absolutely stuffed from it man handling him or shit his pants as he leaves the track after gaining speed faster than it felt before that tight corner or be like jelly at the end of the day after being monstered by the bike

[BoristheBiter]

And only after he has a 450 will he know if it was a good move or not... he will either be able to handle it, have enough throttle control not end up off the track and not be absolutely stuffed from it man handling him or shit his pants as he leaves the track after gaining speed faster than it felt before that tight corner or be like jelly at the end of the day after being monstered by the bike

And that is it in a nut shell.

Personally, for someone one starting out it is too much of a bike but by the sounds of it Brett has his mind set on one, so Good luck brett

[george formby]

And that is it in a nut shell.

Personally, for someone one starting out it is too much of a bike but by the sounds of it Brett has his mind set on one, so Good luck brett

Concur. Designed to humble the unfit & over ambitious. Meh, we only live once. Getting scared shitless is biking in a nutshell. Onwards soldiers, the end is inevitable, make the journey spectacular!

[Brett]

Yes they do, but go back a few pages and see why I suggested a 250. Which was advice I knew would be ignored, it always is

As the OP is still deciding (although sounding very sure), I'll chuck in a couple of last comments.

First is, modern 250 4Ts have plenty of power, so it's not like you'll be fighting the gearbox just to keep the bike on the boil. A later KXF250 is the one to go for, expecially the 2nd injector models, has more than enough grunt to get you around easily. Just don't under-estimate a 250, you will be faster on one.

Second, you don't have to keep the first bike you buy forever. You can get a 250, get comfortable and build up your skills, then swap it for a 450 when you're starting to feel like you could do with a bit more power. I just think that potentially jumping in at the deep end with little to no offroad experience will create bad habits. I know you're not trying to be the next Paul Whibley or anything, but as riding offroad starts getting under your skin (warning, it's hugely addictive), you'll naturally want to improve. I'm far from a fast rider and I know I'll never be a fast rider, but I'm constantly looking at ways to improve, ride better and have more fun. I'll never buy a 450 either...

Les convinced that you might think, or I than I might have portrayed perhaps. The other part that I didn't mention is that, as far as I have read, many of the larger bikes are ridden less hard and so the engines are less poked. I absolutely take all of your points on board and note their worth. Same as I did when I started road riding many years ago, moving up from 250cc to 600cc to 1000cc. I DO appreciate that gradual collection of skills and appreciation that it takes time to get the feel. If I come across a nice, tidy 250 MX at a good price, I will be swayed. Struggling to find something that feels like a good deal though. (Unlike with 450s)

[Brett]

And only after he has a 450 will he know if it was a good move or not... he will either be able to handle it, have enough throttle control not end up off the track and not be absolutely stuffed from it man handling him or shit his pants as he leaves the track after gaining speed faster than it felt before that tight corner or be like jelly at the end of the day after being monstered by the bike

This is the toss up. Either it will be a good move and I will be comfortable on a more powerful machine, or it will be a big mistake and I will have to downsize. THe fitness thing however is less of an issue. That, one can build up - and I am used to training my body for a variety of different fitness requirements. (Yes - I know dirt riding fit is a specific type of fitness - but then so is paddle fit in surfing, road fit on road bikes etc. etc.) As for being scared witless, perhaps. Struggle to see how it could be any less "intense" than getting a good handle bar twitch on a superbike at 280kph though. As with road bikes, it will only go as fast as I make it through twisting the throttle.

Have heard all sides of the argument now, certainly appreciate ALL of the points on both sides. I will continue to look at both, wouldn't bet either way whether I come home with a 250 or a 450. Unfortunately I just don't have the time to go view any bikes at the moment...so bloody busy with work...soon though, wanted one by this coming weekend...not going to happen at this rate!

[nzspokes]

Struggle to see how it could be any less "intense" than getting a good handle bar twitch on a superbike at 280kph though.

They are called trees. They dont duck or move out of the way.

Kinda hurt when you hit them at speed.

[george formby]

They are called trees. They dont duck or move out of the way.

Kinda hurt when you hit them at speed.

LOl. T'was my thoughts. Rocks, roots, trees ect. No give. OP seems to have a handle on things so I reckon eyeballs like pickled onions on a fork is the go. 2t or 4t. Until he gets a bike he can't figure out which kind of riding he likes. When that happens he can make a considered choice.
I like tight & technical so open class bikes are a PITA.

[Jay GTI]

As for being scared witless, perhaps. Struggle to see how it could be any less "intense" than getting a good handle bar twitch on a superbike at 280kph though. As with road bikes, it will only go as fast as I make it through twisting the throttle.

Ah this is exactly the kind of problem that lack of dirt time is giving you as a road rider. The "oh shit" moment is no doubt the same, but you're not thinking about how you got there in the first place. A road bike on a smooth track is relatively stable in it's movement, you may get twitching over bumps, a bit of traction loss on the front or rear, giving you a moment or two when you're really winding it out. You can, with relative control, dictate whether or not you're going to get into those situations, you make the choice when you twist your right hand.

Now on a dirt bike, you're not on some smooth, prepared track, with reasonably even amounts of traction and nice run-off areas if you do get it a bit wrong. Instead you're on a "track" that has ruts, roots, berms, bog holes, soft bits, hard bits, bumps, jumps and all manner of obstacles that are fighting against your progress and throwing that 110-120kg machine around so much that you're hanging on as much as riding it. Plus the training you've been doing isn't enough, you're knackered, you've got sore arms, sore shoulders, sore legs. The arm pump won't go away, your hands are going numb and despite saying "grip with your knees, grip with your knees" over and over again in your head, you're holding on to the bars with everything you've got. Of course, one of those hands is controlling the trigger-switch that is the throttle, which with one uncontrolled panic grab of, suddenly unleashes what feels like 10,000 horsepower as you go flying towards a tree, with your body hanging off the back of the bike and the only way to get it under control is to move forward over the bars. But, because you're knackered, you can only do it by grabbing at the bars with everything you've got, but you can't control it because of the arm pump, so then you just end up grabbing a handful more thottle and the bike goes even harder towards the tree and... you don't know how, but the bike changes course at the last minute and misses the tree, you find yourself in the scrub with a monster turd in your riding pants wondering how you didn't just die and thinking "fuck, I wish I'd bought a more sensible bike, this thing is trying to kill me".

I used to get that moment 3-4 times a ride when I got back into riding and bought "the wrong bike".

[BoristheBiter]

Ah this is exactly the kind of problem that lack of dirt time is giving you as a road rider. The "oh shit" moment is no doubt the same, but you're not thinking about how you got there in the first place. A road bike on a smooth track is relatively stable in it's movement, you may get twitching over bumps, a bit of traction loss on the front or rear, giving you a moment or two when you're really winding it out. You can, with relative control, dictate whether or not you're going to get into those situations, you make the choice when you twist your right hand.

Now on a dirt bike, you're not on some smooth, prepared track, with reasonably even amounts of traction and nice run-off areas if you do get it a bit wrong. Instead you're on a "track" that has ruts, roots, berms, bog holes, soft bits, hard bits, bumps, jumps and all manner of obstacles that are fighting against your progress and throwing that 110-120kg machine around so much that you're hanging on as much as riding it. Plus the training you've been doing isn't enough, you're knackered, you've got sore arms, sore shoulders, sore legs. The arm pump won't go away, your hands are going numb and despite saying "grip with your knees, grip with your knees" over and over again in your head, you're holding on to the bars with everything you've got. Of course, one of those hands is controlling the trigger-switch that is the throttle, which with one uncontrolled panic grab of, suddenly unleashes what feels like 10,000 horsepower as you go flying towards a tree, with your body hanging off the back of the bike and the only way to get it under control is to move forward over the bars. But, because you're knackered, you can only do it by grabbing at the bars with everything you've got, but you can't control it because of the arm pump, so then you just end up grabbing a handful more thottle and the bike goes even harder towards the tree and... you don't know how, but the bike changes course at the last minute and misses the tree, you find yourself in the scrub with a monster turd in your riding pants wondering how you didn't just die and thinking "fuck, I wish I'd bought a more sensible bike, this thing is trying to kill me".

I used to get that moment 3-4 times a ride when I got back into riding and bought "the wrong bike".

Fuck yeah, isn't dirt the ducks nuts and i still do that on the 350.

[ktm84mxc]

Jays right on some points a MX bike is designed mainly for a MX/SX track and can be hard work in the forest but can be made to work. A Enduro/ cross country bike is suited to that environment but will be a struggle on a MX/SX track but can be made to work by firming up the suspension etc.
Brett decide were you plan on doing most of your riding and pick a style of bike best suited to the conditions likely to be found.

[Tony.OK]

Ah this is exactly the kind of problem that lack of dirt time is giving you as a road rider. The "oh shit" moment is no doubt the same, but you're not thinking about how you got there in the first place. A road bike on a smooth track is relatively stable in it's movement, you may get twitching over bumps, a bit of traction loss on the front or rear, giving you a moment or two when you're really winding it out. You can, with relative control, dictate whether or not you're going to get into those situations, you make the choice when you twist your right hand.

Now on a dirt bike, you're not on some smooth, prepared track, with reasonably even amounts of traction and nice run-off areas if you do get it a bit wrong. Instead you're on a "track" that has ruts, roots, berms, bog holes, soft bits, hard bits, bumps, jumps and all manner of obstacles that are fighting against your progress and throwing that 110-120kg machine around so much that you're hanging on as much as riding it. Plus the training you've been doing isn't enough, you're knackered, you've got sore arms, sore shoulders, sore legs. The arm pump won't go away, your hands are going numb and despite saying "grip with your knees, grip with your knees" over and over again in your head, you're holding on to the bars with everything you've got. Of course, one of those hands is controlling the trigger-switch that is the throttle, which with one uncontrolled panic grab of, suddenly unleashes what feels like 10,000 horsepower as you go flying towards a tree, with your body hanging off the back of the bike and the only way to get it under control is to move forward over the bars. But, because you're knackered, you can only do it by grabbing at the bars with everything you've got, but you can't control it because of the arm pump, so then you just end up grabbing a handful more thottle and the bike goes even harder towards the tree and... you don't know how, but the bike changes course at the last minute and misses the tree, you find yourself in the scrub with a monster turd in your riding pants wondering how you didn't just die and thinking "fuck, I wish I'd bought a more sensible bike, this thing is trying to kill me".

I used to get that moment 3-4 times a ride when I got back into riding and bought "the wrong bike".

And heaven forbid ya stall the bastard.........................."thank jebus for leckie starts" after hauling the fukka outta the biggest bog ya didn't expect there's no energy left to kick her ova!

[leathel]

Ah this is exactly the kind of problem that lack of dirt time is giving you as a road rider. The "oh shit" moment is no doubt the same, but you're not thinking about how you got there in the first place. A road bike on a smooth track is relatively stable in it's movement, you may get twitching over bumps, a bit of traction loss on the front or rear, giving you a moment or two when you're really winding it out. You can, with relative control, dictate whether or not you're going to get into those situations, you make the choice when you twist your right hand.

Now on a dirt bike, you're not on some smooth, prepared track, with reasonably even amounts of traction and nice run-off areas if you do get it a bit wrong. Instead you're on a "track" that has ruts, roots, berms, bog holes, soft bits, hard bits, bumps, jumps and all manner of obstacles that are fighting against your progress and throwing that 110-120kg machine around so much that you're hanging on as much as riding it. Plus the training you've been doing isn't enough, you're knackered, you've got sore arms, sore shoulders, sore legs. The arm pump won't go away, your hands are going numb and despite saying "grip with your knees, grip with your knees" over and over again in your head, you're holding on to the bars with everything you've got. Of course, one of those hands is controlling the trigger-switch that is the throttle, which with one uncontrolled panic grab of, suddenly unleashes what feels like 10,000 horsepower as you go flying towards a tree, with your body hanging off the back of the bike and the only way to get it under control is to move forward over the bars. But, because you're knackered, you can only do it by grabbing at the bars with everything you've got, but you can't control it because of the arm pump, so then you just end up grabbing a handful more thottle and the bike goes even harder towards the tree and... you don't know how, but the bike changes course at the last minute and misses the tree, you find yourself in the scrub with a monster turd in your riding pants wondering how you didn't just die and thinking "fuck, I wish I'd bought a more sensible bike, this thing is trying to kill me".

I used to get that moment 3-4 times a ride when I got back into riding and bought "the wrong bike".

Christ its a 450 dirt bike not a rabid lion.... yes I also think a new rider is better to start smaller than a 450 but they dont have a mind of their own..... throttle control in a different riding position will be different but they still are twist the wrist and go....

If he gets a 450 and starts with some of the easier going trail rides I cant see why he wont pick it up..... now whether its comes easily depends on how his brain is wired, looking ahead some "See the way" and just ride through and some just follow the ruts to the deepest pit or panic at something and focus on an obstacle and get stuck on it

If he just cruises and goes with the flow it wont be all that bad

I have known road riders pic up dirt riding quick on CR250's etc (before the new style high HP 4 strokes)..... I know some MX riders that go well on a track but just cant get there head around trail rides... especially wet hill climbs.


I guess we will find out if he gets a 450

[Jay GTI]

Christ its a 450 dirt bike not a rabid lion.... yes I also think a new rider is better to start smaller than a 450 but they dont have a mind of their own..... throttle control in a different riding position will be different but they still are twist the wrist and go....

If he gets a 450 and starts with some of the easier going trail rides I cant see why he wont pick it up..... now whether its comes easily depends on how his brain is wired, looking ahead some "See the way" and just ride through and some just follow the ruts to the deepest pit or panic at something and focus on an obstacle and get stuck on it

If he just cruises and goes with the flow it wont be all that bad

I have known road riders pic up dirt riding quick on CR250's etc (before the new style high HP 4 strokes)..... I know some MX riders that go well on a track but just cant get there head around trail rides... especially wet hill climbs.


I guess we will find out if he gets a 450

I'm not saying riding a 450 is like trying to tame a tornado, just saying there's a big difference between a road bike "oh shit" and a dirt bike "oh shit".

I doubt there's a trail rider on here that hasn't experienced it at least once.