A new mid-capacity class?

[jellywrestler]

tit.

hehehe, you said Tit.

[scott411]

yip and a 6 yr old bike got a lap record in supers and adam unsworths sidecar is over 25 yrs old and still has the lap record at paeroa........

agree totally with this, having to have a new bike to win is a bad thing IMHO, in many forms of motorsport you devolp the car/bike over the years, its not uncomman to see 15 year old speedway cars win races,

[Billy]

doh: STOP IT BUDDA! you are asking people to read the MOMS (or rule book if you didn't know.) I think Sloan has a good point , THIS IS JUST AT CURRENT NATIONAL LEVEL he is talkng about. May be a second system for F3 etc , the bikes are old in General. The Winners bike this year won ten years ago , also , second place was made from spares!!!

Oh well another good idea that will probably have the great Kiwi knocking machine going full tit. God forbid we change anything just to try and make a small change in mind set. Congrats to the commission who change the Superbike and Supersport rules a few years back , their vision paid off with decent feilds in both classes for several years after. At the same time the rules were changed for F3/Superlite and the numbers did NOT grow same with Pro Twin they have been static in numbers for years now.. Sometimes change does work other times not so much.

Yea,

I thought the idea with the changes to Superbike and Supersport were to make them more expensive and therefore to make the then newly introduced Superstock classes more attractive so folks would gravitate to the cheaper option?That worked well LOL.

I like the idea of the restrictors in the 600s though,But why not just allow them 90 rwhp and run them in Superlite,The onus would be on the competitor to have their machine detuned and sealed,Any machine that showed a clear advantage in straightline speed could be impounded and dynoed,If found to be illegal when rechecked then a matter of fact exclusion would apply,Be easy to check if the restrictors were in place surely,New mid size production class in my mind would be 251-500cc 4 stroke twin to include the likes of the CBR500,EX300,KTM390 and the new 300 from Yamaha,Stock suspension and slip on only,NO powercommander or autotune.

[budda]

agree totally with this, having to have a new bike to win is a bad thing IMHO, in many forms of motorsport you devolp the car/bike over the years, its not uncomman to see 15 year old speedway cars win races,

THAT is EXACTLY why us stupid idiots of the Old Commission made such a far cup of the rules, to allow people to upgrade rather than replace every coupla seasons

There MUST be a place for the Kiwi Fiddler, otherwise the only guys with fast bikes will be riding someone elses budgets every year

[budda]

doh: STOP IT BUDDA! you are asking people to read the MOMS (or rule book if you didn't know.) I think Sloan has a good point , THIS IS JUST AT CURRENT NATIONAL LEVEL he is talkng about. May be a second system for F3 etc , the bikes are old in General. The Winners bike this year won ten years ago , also , second place was made from spares!!!

.

Someone help me out here - other than the chosen few who flit all over the shop on other folks wallets, where do the MAJORITY of Nationals Competitors learn to ply their trade ?

We need to get real here guys, the number of people who can afford to run a separate bike for 4-5 meetings a year is TINY compared to the HUNDREDS who ride for the FUN OF IT - pure and simple.

We had a proposal to run 100% stock 600's a while back, c/w an undertaking from Distributors to back it with entries and control ECU's. Tyre degradation is much less of an issue with std boingers if we run harder tyres by legislation - speeds come down, load on suspension comes down, tyre life comes up.

No new lap records compared to current 600's, but 600 version of 250 Proddy racing would be AWESOME to watch, and affordable to compete in

[driftn]

Yup I have raced him on a bucket. Ill take my chances

You must spread some rep before giving to CHOPPA..........

[mr bucketracer]

and I wonder why I got back into racing

[CHOPPA]

The idea behind me starting the thread wasnt to discuss what classes should stay or go but thats inevitable I guess.

I have had numerous conversations with young guys and their parents who are looking for the next step after they move on from their 125 or 250. Their goal is to get onto a 600 or 1000 in the not too distant future but the leap straight to a 600 is too great initially. The pro twin and superlite dont provide a clear progression to these other classes and its often difficult to build a competitive reliable bike so the restricted 600 makes a lot of sense.

I am not suggesting a HP cap, merely just a restrictor size of lets say 30mm (complete guess) its a self limiting factor

[CHOPPA]

as for F3, i tend to agree with saving it, I like the fact their are different bikes in it, i think it would be just has hard to explain why the bikes that look just the same as the 600's, are way slower and sound horrible,

also, where would these bikes race at club level? as no one is going to build a bike to race 4 meetings a year,

I think calling the it 600 Restricted would be explanation enough

I raced 15 club road racing events last year

Well aware this comes across as a cockhead question Chop, but sobeit ....... seriously -
When you were coming up through the Jumping Bike classes ( as I did too ) would you have jumped at the chance of moving to the next big Class if the bikes were restricted to only 70% of their power until "someone" deemed that you could handle it, and could adjust the suspension properly ?

No I wouldnt Budda cause I have big balls unlike all the other whimps hahahaaha Seriously though, I was racing 80cc bikes at 8, 125cc bikes at 12 and 250cc (2 Stroke) at 18. I raced 600s for 6 months then I went to Superbike. People are too scared to put their 16 year old kids on 600s (as would I) so this would provide that step then they can step up to the class they actually want to ride for FREE.

Building a pro twin or superlite then selling that and starting all over again is hard work plus the rider has to get used to a totally new bike. Getting on a 70/80hp 600 and then just giving it another 40hp when the kid is good to go seem like a good idea.

[scott411]

Building a pro twin or superlite then selling that and starting all over again is hard work plus the rider has to get used to a totally new bike. Getting on a 70/80hp 600 and then just giving it another 40hp when the kid is good to go seem like a good idea.

i think sometimes the excuse is out there that its to much power, and if that's taken away another excuse will come up,

I think the cost of the current tyre rule is keeping people away from the 600's, more than anything, and maybe your expert class idea with a much less tyres to be used per weekend is the way to go,

[budda]

i think sometimes the excuse is out there that its to much power, and if that's taken away another excuse will come up,

I think the cost of the current tyre rule is keeping people away from the 600's, more than anything, and maybe your expert class idea with a much less tyres to be used per weekend is the way to go,

ONE Set per 3 race weekend would sort it - testing would prove the theory, standard suspension on harder race tyres, on and on I go, like an organ-grinders monkey ( yes, I KNOW I left myself open )

[scott411]

ONE Set per 3 race weekend would sort it - testing would prove the theory, standard suspension on harder race tyres, on and on I go, like an organ-grinders monkey ( yes, I KNOW I left myself open )

i agree totally, tyre management is a big part of a lot of motorsport, watching the v8's yesterday and their was a 4-6 sec a lap difference on worn tyres,

[Billy]

I think the cost of the current tyre rule is keeping people away from the 600's, more than anything, and maybe your expert class idea with a much less tyres to be used per weekend is the way to go,

Yea,

Or not,Apparently 3 sets of tyres(Actually 2 fronts 3 rears) for 2 days racing was dangerous,I can't see the current crop of 600 pilots accepting any less than 4 sets for next season,Still,That said there were some who only used 1 or 2 sets per weekend

[budda]

The idea behind me starting the thread wasnt to discuss what classes should stay or go but thats inevitable I guess.

I have had numerous conversations with young guys and their parents who are looking for the next step after they move on from their 125 or 250. Their goal is to get onto a 600 or 1000 in the not too distant future but the leap straight to a 600 is too great initially. The pro twin and superlite dont provide a clear progression to these other classes and its often difficult to build a competitive reliable bike so the restricted 600 makes a lot of sense.

I am not suggesting a HP cap, merely just a restrictor size of lets say 30mm (complete guess) its a self limiting factor

Just so I'm clear here, what is it you think the restrictors are RESTRICTING Chop ?

[budda]

i agree totally, tyre management is a big part of a lot of motorsport, watching the v8's yesterday and their was a 4-6 sec a lap difference on worn tyres,

In 2000?, we were running a pace that would have had us inside the top 10-12? last weekend, and we used 1 front and 2 rears in 6 HOURS at that pace, ON STANDARD SUSPENSION.

SURELY, with all the advancements in standard suspension and tyre technology, modern fast guys can get an hour and a half out of a set ? That's a full weekends racing ( practice not included )