A new mid-capacity class?

[CHOPPA]

yes but how many laps and lenght of a lap ?

you willing to do race races at nationls in nz, on one set of tyres ?

3x 12 lap races and yeah id be happy to do that

[lostinflyz]

how many people are actually stuck between 125's or 250's and 600's??? about 3-5 per year would be a guess. Thats hardly enough to justify a new class......... the only reason to create this class (much like 650 pro twin in my opinion) would be to add a class in between 125's and 600's that good riders could win in their first year and feel like a champion......

The reality is f3 is appealing to a different demographic than what this class would target.

[Shaun Harris]

fukin young poofters, the bike only goes as fast as you twist the throttle

[Drew]

Yup, I suggested we have limited tyres. I enjoy managing worn tyres. I was voted against by majority of other riders

So the majority weren't in favour? The system works.

Same end result but putting the restrictor plates in would take about 30 mins and could be done by anyone that knows how to change a tyre. How long does it take to turn the engine to a 450 and back? How much does it cost?

Costs the price of a head gasket, and some silicon sealant. If the motor was new, I wouldn't even replace the gasket. Could be changed to a triple over night, and back in the same time. P'raps a bit longer to drop a slug, since ya gotta wait till the glues goes off proper. When I toyed with the idea I was just gonna take the buckets off the inlet valves to stop them opening, so as to only need to glue up one set of stem holes.

You might have noticed lately, people will go to stupid lengths to win any championship. Limiting the air a motor gets reduces power, spend enough money though and you'll get a big chunk of that power back. People will do that. To get their kid a #1 plate in a class, or for any number of other reasons.

fukin young poofters, the bike only goes as fast as you twist the throttle

Oh yeah, people are gonna not go to full throttle in a race.

[CHOPPA]

It would be fantastic if people answered the original question...

I have had an idea that id spoken with a few people about so I think it warrants the conversation on here see if anyone could raise potential pit falls or engine problems that I hadnt thought of. Im gonna be selfish and ask that you just discuss this idea and not what you your alternative ideas for a mid sized class like production this or that.

Maybe the idea of another class is wrong but maybe the idea still has merit. You could chuck a kid on a 600 and just limit it yourself and get him to test days and track days until they come to grips with the rest of the bike then unleash the full power

[scott411]

i think the last point you make is very good,

if this class is really needed, is it not better to run it as a club series first, and if it takes off and gets the numbers, then it can come into the nationals, the point is the same for the CBR500 class as well, why do these classes need to be in the nationals to take off?, should it not be the other away round?

[CHOPPA]

i think the last point you make is very good,

if this class is really needed, is it not better to run it as a club series first, and if it takes off and gets the numbers, then it can come into the nationals, the point is the same for the CBR500 class as well, why do these classes need to be in the nationals to take off?, should it not be the other away round?

Yeah I think you make a valid point. The CBR thing would be a bit harder at a club level as its a big investment in a bike that may not be able to race in a National.

If there was some concessions made or a club initiative to let restricted 600s run with F3 at club level it might be the way forward

[Drew]

i think the last point you make is very good,

if this class is really needed, is it not better to run it as a club series first, and if it takes off and gets the numbers, then it can come into the nationals, the point is the same for the CBR500 class as well, why do these classes need to be in the nationals to take off?, should it not be the other away round?

That's all well and good, but clubs run more classes than the Nats rounds already. Though, there is one that should be dropped. Clubmans is a class I don't understand being at club rounds.


Pit falls of the original idea, choking a modern injected bike is doing it no good. I doubt it could compensate for the sort of reduction in flow, with standard mapping.

[Drew]

Yeah I think you make a valid point. The CBR thing would be a bit harder at a club level as its a big investment in a bike that may not be able to race in a National.

If there was some concessions made or a club initiative to let restricted 600s run with F3 at club level it might be the way forward

CBR 500 is eligible for pro twins without a rule change, or any concession.

[Shaun Harris]

So the majority weren't in favour? The system works.








Oh yeah, people are gonna not go to full throttle in a race.

The ones that do not shit them selves will and the ones that do shit them self will not, so should not be there in the first place on a bike with grunt

[RobGassit]

This thread had some merit to discuss until post #5. Wanting to drop F3 and ProTwin for a class that no one has even attempted in F3 at club level is a brain fart, pure and simple. And to top it all off, both those classes are dominated by your sponsors product, Suzuki!

[Mental Trousers]

The concept is basically just a supersport bike with nominated size restricters in the intake to limit the HP to around 70hp. Much like what they do in the UK for there LAMS bike laws...

http://www.fiinternational.com/our-products.asp

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-CBR-...item338c00ae50

That way kids stepping off 250s, 125s etc could get on a 600 thats either done its dash in Supersport or they can go with a longer term plan and set a bike up for Supersport and then run restricters. It would be the best way to ezz them into racing a big bike so they get used to the chassis without all the power on tap and then its a very easy step to the next class, supersport. 2 steps with only 1 bike...

I think if the rules for new racers were tweaked then a class with restrictors could well be an excellent way for people to get into racing while using the bike they've got, but only if it's a run what-ya-brung-with-restrictors-in-place class. Obviously the restrictors would need to be different sizes for 2, 3 and 4 cylinder bikes but it's a very cheap way to get into a class that has a Nationals level competition without laying out a huge wad of money. If people spend a season or two there then continue racing in 600's or Superbikes then that's mission achieved.

That way you can have the CBR500's and the restricted 600/4's and many other bikes in the same class all with the same(ish) power.

This would, of course, mean doing away with Clubmans, which isn't a bad thing. Personally I skipped Clubmans and went straight to F3 because there's guys in there being let loose on 600's and litre bikes that don't have a clue what they're doing.

Why would this class be an improvement over a 600 running on three slugs in F3?

Ya know the valves can be put back in, and the bike becomes a supersport bike again eh?

Same end result but putting the restrictor plates in would take about 30 mins and could be done by anyone that knows how to change a tyre. How long does it take to turn the engine to a 450 and back? How much does it cost?

It takes 2 minutes and costs about 20c.

Unplug the fuel injectors for one cylinder from the wiring loom, put a 15ohm resistor across the plug on the loom side, go racing. This is exactly how my bike has been done and with the standard PC3 and pipe it's smack bang in the middle of the max power spread for 450cc triples with stock engines.

The reality is f3 is appealing to a different demographic than what this class would target.

Absolutely

if this class is really needed, is it not better to run it as a club series first, and if it takes off and gets the numbers, then it can come into the nationals, the point is the same for the CBR500 class as well, why do these classes need to be in the nationals to take off?, should it not be the other away round?

Exactly. Anything at National level requires a huge amount of support and participation at club level. Without grass roots there is no National level stuff.

[CHOPPA]

This thread had some merit to discuss until post #5. Wanting to drop F3 and ProTwin for a class that no one has even attempted in F3 at club level is a brain fart, pure and simple. And to top it all off, both those classes are dominated by your sponsors product, Suzuki!

Everything is dominated by SUZUKI

[CHOPPA]

What your saying (MT) about just disconnecting the injector that sounds like an even easier solution and pretty much hits the nail on the head. Its already possible to do that and its not really common place or maybe people just dont realise so that answers the question in the fact the class wouldnt work. Thats a great way for someone to tone down the 600 and they can ride it in F3 a class thats already there. Next time im asked the question that is certainly what I will suggest

[MOTOXXX]

I like the sound of the restricted 600 class.

the older 600 race bikes tend to get put in the back of a shed or taken out to the occasional track day / clubmans race when they stop being competitive.
They just don't hold a lot value after that.

This would be a cost effective way to stay in an F3 level class.
Picking up a cheaper 600 that is a few years old, is easier on tires than a full 600 and ride something with more modern chassis / suspension. Also less strung out than a high end f3 bike.

sounds like a great idea to me.