A new mid-capacity class?

[Drew]

What your saying (MT) about just disconnecting the injector that sounds like an even easier solution and pretty much hits the nail on the head. Its already possible to do that and its not really common place or maybe people just dont realise so that answers the question in the fact the class wouldnt work. Thats a great way for someone to tone down the 600 and they can ride it in F3 a class thats already there. Next time im asked the question that is certainly what I will suggest

In these conversations you've had, it's clear that you weren't talking to people with a clear understanding of the classes available or bikes eligible for them.

F3 has a very strong following normally. The options of what can be run on a modest budget are staggering. There is also enormous room for development.

I dunno why it's stopped being used as a stepping stone to supersport, because it's the the class that most makes sense to do so.

[budda]

Did I hear that right? Advancements in standard suspension? Since when ( for example ) were BPF forks an advancement, other than being a lot cheaper to make?

The marketing guys have a habit of making pigshit sound like strawberry jam and the sad thing is many people believe it.

Sorry Doc, couldn't find the "tongue in cheek" button on my keyboard

[CHOPPA]

In these conversations you've had, it's clear that you weren't talking to people with a clear understanding of the classes available or bikes eligible for them.

F3 has a very strong following normally. The options of what can be run on a modest budget are staggering. There is also enormous room for development.

I dunno why it's stopped being used as a stepping stone to supersport, because it's the the class that most makes sense to do so.

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

[scott411]

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

Ninja 650R or SV650 or GT650, you could do that and enter in pro twins, and be competitive, then if you did not want to go up in speed and cost to the 600, you could go the F3 route, allowing more suspension tuning, and motor work,

their may be come merit in up specing the suspension allowed in Pro Twins, to get people used to being able to adjust there suspension as Robert and others promotes as being needed,

but the truth is that most NZ road racers do not buy new bikes to race, unless they get a deal from the distributor, there are far more second hand, and insurance write offs put into race bikes, than brand new bikes, esp in the pro twin /F3/ 250 Proddy series,

[budda]

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

Stop playing the flesh trombone and do some thinking Choppa - not everyone WANTS to just buy results, who the hell are YOU to tell people that THEIR fun is of less value than yours ?

This IS a sport, its MEANT to be fun ....... if everybody put as much effort into their Superbikes as many of the F3 guys do, we'd have the WSBK running scared

[jellywrestler]

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

nor is making a class of that size obsolete and hoping that all those competitors will be able to sell their now devalued machine and buy another, with spare wheels etc, that's if they don't just hang up their leathers.

[neil_cb125t]

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

That is why people go to F3 - so they dont have to buy a new 600/1000 every second year!!!

Pro twins is there to fill the need that this thread is about - a class that you can buy a bike do little to it and race. Making further classes that remove competitives from F3 and pro twins will simply water down classes even more. Just like when teh super stock/super sport was trialed. It wasn't effective and all

If anything the big boys should go back to what the public actually understand......whats run at the tri series and works AMAZINGLY

F1 - F2 and F3......... and whats interesting is Classes are full, internationals come over sponsors are there........Questions?

[mr bucketracer]

What bike can I buy new, tune the suspension and win F3?

F3 appeals to people that are happy to ride old custom bikes, people that have graduated from riding buckets and old 125 GP bikes etc plus F3 is like there long term goal, they love a particular bike and tinker with it and its never quite finished and they will ride F3 forever. Thats not progression.

so do you like the britten v1000 ?

[Shaun Harris]

F1 - F2 and F3......... and whats interesting is Classes are full, internationals come over sponsors are there........Questions?

Gets my vote

[Mental Trousers]

I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way.

A class that has intake restrictors can replace Pro Twins and Clubmans and also include bikes like the CBR500RR etc. If the intake restrictors allow a maximum of 75hp then it's spot on for a good Pro Twins bike. At club level these can run with F3 or by themselves. You might find some of those Pro Twins bikes are suddenly slower than they are now.

It makes a lot of sense if you think of it as an expansion of Pro Twins that merges a couple of existing classes rather than a replacement for a F3.

[malcy25]

I think at a national level, we have too many classes that look and sound the same to each other as it is, without adding another.

I gave up bothering to go to W(h)anganui about 15 years ago as it just seemed like most races were just the same looking and sounding bikes called a different class.

I'm a long term racer so have a good grip on what is being raced and what class it is, and I'm happy to watch when not racing, but I pity the poor random spectator who doesn't understand.

I don't really care whether F1 or Superbike as these days they will invariably be production based anyway (just the level of mods done will differ), but just one class please. Same for 600's.

I also don't see why all classes need to be production based, nor do I see why riders have to progress - I agree there should be a path, but at some point, people will say, "yep, I'm happy at this level of expenditure or commitment". It's at this end of the spectrum that removes the "same same, but different" that gets a bit boring for the people we are trying to get through the gate to help pay for the racing in the first place, and impress enough so they come back...

Chop, what sort of reaction does he naked bike class get in Aussie?

[budda]

I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way.

A class that has intake restrictors can replace Pro Twins and Clubmans and also include bikes like the CBR500RR etc. If the intake restrictors allow a maximum of 75hp then it's spot on for a good Pro Twins bike. At club level these can run with F3 or by themselves. You might find some of those Pro Twins bikes are suddenly slower than they are now.

It makes a lot of sense if you think of it as an expansion of Pro Twins that merges a couple of existing classes rather than a replacement for a F3.

A pedantic person would turn that around and say "if your bike fits within the current F3/Superlite rules, THATS where it should be run" - wouldn't that solve a lot of (non) issues

[budda]

I think at a national level, we have too many classes that look and sound the same to each other as it is, without adding another.

I gave up bothering to go to W(h)anganui about 15 years ago as it just seemed like most races were just the same looking and sounding bikes called a different class.

I'm a long term racer so have a good grip on what is being raced and what class it is, and I'm happy to watch when not racing, but I pity the poor random spectator who doesn't understand.

I don't really care whether F1 or Superbike as these days they will invariably be production based anyway (just the level of mods done will differ), but just one class please. Same for 600's.

I also don't see why all classes need to be production based, nor do I see why riders have to progress - I agree there should be a path, but at some point, people will say, "yep, I'm happy at this level of expenditure or commitment". It's at this end of the spectrum that removes the "same same, but different" that gets a bit boring for the people we are trying to get through the gate to help pay for the racing in the first place, and impress enough so they come back...

Chop, what sort of reaction does he naked bike class get in Aussie?

cant disagree with much of your post - but rejigging our SPORT for the benefit of those watching rather than those DOING is very much arse before elbow in my not so humble opinion

[scott411]

I think at a national level, we have too many classes that look and sound the same to each other as it is, without adding another.

I gave up bothering to go to W(h)anganui about 15 years ago as it just seemed like most races were just the same looking and sounding bikes called a different class.

Wanganui and tri sereis classes are

F1
F2
F3/Superlight
Post Classic,
Classic
Super Motard
Bears
and sidecar,

really the only two that sound and look are the F1 and F2, so maybe its time you head back again,

[Mental Trousers]

A pedantic person would turn that around and say "if your bike fits within the current F3/Superlite rules, THATS where it should be run" - wouldn't that solve a lot of (non) issues

A pedant would be looking for an argument then.

Where does a newish rider with a GSXR750 fit? Or a Ducati 898? Stick intake restrictors in them and you've got a much safer environment for newer riders than the current Clubmans setup.

I really don't like the Clubmans class. It mixes vastly different machinery ridden by inexperienced (at racing) riders.