A new mid-capacity class?

[Pumba]

we should start with a 1000 with restricters to 25 hp for bucket racing then 40 for 125 racing and so on ..one bike does all i am so on to it lol

I like that idea. 25 is still more than my bucket. It should fix those light young pricks that keep beating me on their 125 two strokes as well.

[Robert Taylor]

so get ohlins to build hearing aid, then it would be sorted.

Irrespective of taking the piss a lot of people complain about this very issue, the ones that need the hearing aids are those that are not listening when this problem is expressed

[Robert Taylor]

But it does teach them the rules and race craft, so is a bloody good starting class in my opinion and is cheap with out having to spend say $5000-00 on god dam suspenion Robert, then when they want it changed they cannot get it changed as the disributor is CONTRACTED to a sellect few only

Yes it does teach them race craft as do more junior classes but irrespective there has to be a credible and highly effective means of teaching setup skills if they want to and BEFORE they graduate further up. That is my whole point irrespective of cost or percieved cost, which doesnt have to be anything like 5k or the old chestnut that many keep justifying. I.e keeping everything as cheap as possible. In part its because of that very mentality that riders arrive in the 600 class without enough setup skills. This is not 1970, 1980, 1990 or even 2000, we are in 2014.

As you roundly refer to '' a select few'' my world of working on 6-7 Superbikes all at once is no picnic, in case it hadnt been noticed. Also in case it hadnt been noticed the cost of providing such a service is not insubstanial. Much moreso than many would blindly assume. There are other suspension tuners out there but how many do you see that are willing to really get stuck in? One of them arrived at the last round of the Nationals without his service truck arrogantly proclaiming that everything was sorted, which as it transpired was very much not the case. Whether he learns from that lesson is entirely his call.

But the manifest problems of being a suspension tuner and the many unjustified and off ''tall poppy'' perceptions is not what this thread is about

In previous threads I touched on the concept of offering suspension setup seminars specific to a one make class with bikes equipped with responsive suspension adjustments. Such a mentality could be applied within Choppas very fertile ideas.

[Shaun Harris]

we should start with a 1000 with restricters to 25 hp for bucket racing then 40 for 125 racing and so on ..one bike does all i am so on to it lol

Dam sharp cooky

[Shaun Harris]

Yes it does teach them race craft as do more junior classes but irrespective there has to be a credible and highly effective means of teaching setup skills if they want to and BEFORE they graduate further up. That is my whole point irrespective of cost or percieved cost, which doesnt have to be anything like 5k or the old chestnut that many keep justifying. I.e keeping everything as cheap as possible. In part its because of that very mentality that riders arrive in the 600 class without enough setup skills. This is not 1970, 1980, 1990 or even 2000, we are in 2014.

As you roundly refer to '' a select few'' my world of working on 6-7 Superbikes all at once is no picnic, in case it hadnt been noticed. Also in case it hadnt been noticed the cost of providing such a service is not insubstanial. Much moreso than many would blindly assume. There are other suspension tuners out there but how many do you see that are willing to really get stuck in? One of them arrived at the last round of the Nationals without his service truck arrogantly proclaiming that everything was sorted, which as it transpired was very much not the case. Whether he learns from that lesson is entirely his call.

But the manifest problems of being a suspension tuner and the many unjustified and off ''tall poppy'' perceptions is not what this thread is about

In previous threads I touched on the concept of offering suspension setup seminars specific to a one make class with bikes equipped with responsive suspension adjustments. Such a mentality could be applied within Choppas very fertile ideas.

I was NOT knocking you nor your product at all Robert, Ohlins and yourself/Dennis are bloody great, I was just pointing out the obvious to whats involved or lacking in this area.

Teaching set up skills is a load of bollocks or a sales pitch, ( As it is you that always throws in how much costs are involved in your involvement) depending on how you want to read into it mate, the only way any one can learn set up skills is to turn the bloody clickers ( And write it down) and go for a ride and feel what the reaction is to the work just done.

I raced for 12 months using completly Standard suspension in my first season ( Adjustable but standard) then when I first got good race suspension I learned so much so quickly as I already had a good feel for standard stuff, and knew the difference between right and wrong all but instantly.

You know I am 100% behind good race suspension, but I am also in the real world when it comes down to what a young rider needs as I have actually been there done that, ( Paid for myself, not mum and dads money like these days) where as you are a trained technician with No race craft skills what so ever so do not really understand what a new rider needs from a riders point of view, you base your opinions on what you know re the quality of your product and other brands that you speak fairly about often.

Young riders simply need Track time to enlighten them selves about the game they are now playing, if they want to be fast serious racers, they will have there eyes and ears wide open and will see what it takes to be a Craig Shirriffs or a Sloan frost John ross etc etc.

Young riders need to learn
Rules
Race craft
Presentation
How to say please and thankyou

And how to communicate with either english or body language to explain what there bikes are doing, they are never going to learn those skills in a class room enviroment Doctor

As you were

[jellywrestler]

Irrespective of taking the piss a lot of people complain about this very issue, the ones that need the hearing aids are those that are not listening when this problem is expressed

yeah well i've been trying to shake the old F3 from the commentary over the last few years but haven't managed to, can't think of anyone that has mentioned it to me and have lately resigned to calling is as both. I still prefer the F3 title in reality but i do have a job to do.
at some meetings there are programmes, usually if you're confused you can see someone from another class up the line and work out what's out there.
If hearing the wrong thing and missing a race is going to confuse you then remind me not to get near you at an Orgy, there are somethings that ACC just wouldn't beleive...

[Shaun Harris]

yeah well i've been trying to shake the old F3 from the commentary over the last few years but haven't managed to, can't think of anyone that has mentioned it to me and have lately resigned to calling is as both. I still prefer the F3 title in reality but i do have a job to do.
at some meetings there are programmes, usually if you're confused you can see someone from another class up the line and work out what's out there.
If hearing the wrong thing and missing a race is going to confuse you then remind me not to get near you at an Orgy, there are somethings that ACC just wouldn't beleive...

You have been doing an exellent job I think mate, comes across quite well on ctas, and yea have noticed the odd F3 hickup

[budda]

Yes and it seriously needs renaming, maybe back to what it was. How many times has confusion occured when bikes have been called to the grid over the PA? Was that Superbike or Superlite they called?

Could always rename "Superbikes" - how about "Primadonna's with farcall idea about anyone else" Class
( apologies to the exceptions, there are quite a few of you )

[budda]

You can rule Pro Twins out of that Chop because you learn pretty much bugger all about front forks due to the restrictions inherent in that class. With all due respect to those competing in that class they are racing bikes that were intended as no more than pleasant commuter bikes and the chassis geometry of most of the bikes in that class confirms same. An inbetween class should also be focused more heavily on learning full chassis set up skills ( with suitable chassis ) otherwise its like being a fish out of water when you go to 600s

That is the very point a lot of people are missing and your ideas have a lot of merit.

Cant argue with a lot of your logic Doc ( but your politics is arse )

Why is it so difficult to understand that there IS and WILL be no Championship without Competitors.

There is EXACTLY nothing stopping these ideas happening at Club level RIGHT NOW ........
The CBR's could be in F3, 450/600's are already in there, even the odd F450 and all the 2 stroke mutis that people wanted

The only thing missing from the equation is the active participation of many riders with not always bad ideas from their Clubs meetings - if there is a "demand", Clubs will run Classes that are not up for National Titles ( viz the good ol' Kuntana Class, or the Repulse 400's )

Sorry guys, the "build it, and they will come" deal is a MOVIE, its PRETEND guys .......... when there is a good body of bikes all under the same rules, with proven and consistent Competitor numbers, lobby for a Champs Class then

Get along to your Club meetings, even better - get on the Committee and ORGANISE it .........

[Robert Taylor]

I was NOT knocking you nor your product at all Robert, Ohlins and yourself/Dennis are bloody great, I was just pointing out the obvious to whats involved or lacking in this area.

Teaching set up skills is a load of bollocks or a sales pitch, ( As it is you that always throws in how much costs are involved in your involvement) depending on how you want to read into it mate, the only way any one can learn set up skills is to turn the bloody clickers ( And write it down) and go for a ride and feel what the reaction is to the work just done.

I raced for 12 months using completly Standard suspension in my first season ( Adjustable but standard) then when I first got good race suspension I learned so much so quickly as I already had a good feel for standard stuff, and knew the difference between right and wrong all but instantly.

You know I am 100% behind good race suspension, but I am also in the real world when it comes down to what a young rider needs as I have actually been there done that, ( Paid for myself, not mum and dads money like these days) where as you are a trained technician with No race craft skills what so ever so do not really understand what a new rider needs from a riders point of view, you base your opinions on what you know re the quality of your product and other brands that you speak fairly about often.

Young riders simply need Track time to enlighten them selves about the game they are now playing, if they want to be fast serious racers, they will have there eyes and ears wide open and will see what it takes to be a Craig Shirriffs or a Sloan frost John ross etc etc.

Young riders need to learn
Rules
Race craft
Presentation
How to say please and thankyou

And how to communicate with either english or body language to explain what there bikes are doing, they are never going to learn those skills in a class room enviroment Doctor

As you were

1) I ride motorcycles too, not at race speed but I do very much understand the dynamics. Been riding since 1973 no less. So I totally reject your assertions

2) We have many riders that come to us to have their suspension reworked. We then spend time with them ''one to one'' at the conclusion of the job describing all the adjustments and physically showing the extremities of bad adjustments. That is very well recieved and they learn from it. So again I reject your assertions

[budda]

1) I ride motorcycles too, not at race speed but I do very much understand the dynamics. Been riding since 1973 no less. So I totally reject your assertions

2) We have many riders that come to us to have their suspension reworked. We then spend time with them ''one to one'' at the conclusion of the job describing all the adjustments and physically showing the extremities of bad adjustments. That is very well recieved and they learn from it. So again I reject your assertions

Play nicely boys - all the adjustability in the WORLD is no good until the Pilots arse is connected to his head, as you both know. TWICE as hard doing boingers and clickers for someone who cant explain what their bike is doing, even with the universal riders sign-language ........ can see what the GP guys are saying by their actions in the pits, eh ?

So you are BOTH ( cant believe I'm saying this !!!!!!! ) right ...........

[Shaun Harris]

Play nicely boys - all the adjustability in the WORLD is no good until the Pilots arse is connected to his head, as you both know. TWICE as hard doing boingers and clickers for someone who cant explain what their bike is doing, even with the universal riders sign-language ........ can see what the GP guys are saying by their actions in the pits, eh ?

So you are BOTH ( cant believe I'm saying this !!!!!!! ) right ...........

I thought I was ie the compliments I paid to Robert and Dennis with there skills and passion for suspension. Robert unfortunately just took my factuall statement personally

[Crasherfromwayback]

. My NSR300 will be done soon. 80hp 105kg what bike would you rather ride?

Gizza go Mr!

[Shaun Harris]

Gizza go Mr!

FUCK yes, me next please after you crash

[quickbuck]

Cant argue with a lot of your logic Doc ( but your politics is arse )

Why is it so difficult to understand that there IS and WILL be no Championship without Competitors.

There is EXACTLY nothing stopping these ideas happening at Club level RIGHT NOW ........
The CBR's could be in F3, 450/600's are already in there, even the odd F450 and all the 2 stroke mutis that people wanted

The only thing missing from the equation is the active participation of many riders with not always bad ideas from their Clubs meetings - if there is a "demand", Clubs will run Classes that are not up for National Titles ( viz the good ol' Kuntana Class, or the Repulse 400's )

Sorry guys, the "build it, and they will come" deal is a MOVIE, its PRETEND guys .......... when there is a good body of bikes all under the same rules, with proven and consistent Competitor numbers, lobby for a Champs Class then

Get along to your Club meetings, even better - get on the Committee and ORGANISE it .........

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to budda again.