Property costs in NZ - the heart of evil

[Brett]

My logic is to not spend a fortune on fancy design that only builders, architects and 1% of the population will understand the value in. Rather, simplify the design and spend extra on things that really matter, like LED lighting, good quality window joinery, GOOD insulation, innovative, thoughtful use of what would otherwise be dead space, nice door hardware, good quality kitchen and bathroom fittings etc. People really do notice this, and if the colours and general aesthetic elements to the building are properly considered, it doesn't look at all like you have picked the house structure for cost effectiveness. Trust me, that picture of that house doesn't do it justice...and it looks pretty impressive at night when lit up with the exterior lighting. It's just one I happened to have on hand to post. Architectural wank factor is great if you have the budget for it, but if not, don't be tempted by it. It is really easy to double the cost of building a building without actually being able to appreciate exactly why it cost 2 -4 times more to build...for most people at least.

[BMWST?]

My logic is to not spend a fortune on fancy design that only builders, architects and 1% of the population will understand the value in. Rather, simplify the design and spend extra on things that really matter, like LED lighting, good quality window joinery, GOOD insulation, innovative, thoughtful use of what would otherwise be dead space, nice door hardware, good quality kitchen and bathroom fittings etc. People really do notice this, and if the colours and general aesthetic elements to the building are properly considered, it doesn't look at all like you have picked the house structure for cost effectiveness. Trust me, that picture of that house doesn't do it justice...and it looks pretty impressive at night when lit up with the exterior lighting. It's just one I happened to have on hand to post. Architectural wank factor is great if you have the budget for it, but if not, don't be tempted by it. It is really easy to double the cost of building a building without actually being able to appreciate exactly why it cost 2 -4 times more to build...for most people at least.

Its very hard to define but some people are able to design a house that looks good and the rooms feel right.without going to the extremes a good architect will design a house that works well and appeals more than another house.not always a "proper" architect either.

[Ocean1]

not always a "proper" architect either.

Architect training is far more about art than science or engineering. Which makes their professional advice a purely subjective opinion, rather than a quantifiable one.

An opinion shaped mostly by fashion and law at that, two aspects of residential building advice I'd rather not have at all let alone actually pay for.

[BMWST?]

Architect training is far more about art than science or engineering. Which makes their professional advice a purely subjective opinion, rather than a quantifiable one.

An opinion shaped mostly by fashion and law at that, two aspects of residential building advice I'd rather not have at all let alone actually pay for.

Dunno about that,honestly.As above some houses just function and feel a whole lot better than other equivalent houses.The better ones will have been blessed by somone who have a real talent and maybe some training

[Brett]

Its very hard to define but some people are able to design a house that looks good and the rooms feel right.without going to the extremes a good architect will design a house that works well and appeals more than another house.not always a "proper" architect either.

I design all of the building I build for myself and then get an AD to just do the working details. definitely not a necessity to pay massive fee's to an architect to get a good design. 100% with you there.

[Brett]

Dunno about that,honestly.As above some houses just function and feel a whole lot better than other equivalent houses.The better ones will have been blessed by somone who have a real talent and maybe some training

As you said, some people have the knack for working out spaces and imagining how the will 'feel' and others just don't. Same way some people 'get' interior design and intuitively know what will work but others can't get the same vision. people just have different talents.

[badlieutenant]

One thing not covered much here is the hangover from the leaky building. Alot of good trades people got burned. They built to code but the code was pretty crap, let alone the wankers short cutting a bad solution. Even now Ill never do a stucco clad home.
Im liable for failure of any buildings Im involved with for rather a long time. And as someone who at this stage just wants to take home a wage/self employed I have to consider that I might be working for minimum or less should I have to defend work Ive been involved with.
Even if Im not the main signatory using his lbp number, Ill be listed in the record of work at the end of the job.
Some of the large spec home companies want the builds to cost very little. One job we quoted on (state home) allowed 560.00 to install 20 windows and doors. I have seen the people who can do it for that and the joinery looks crap and they are fixed with a framing gun. We lost the contract but got the job after the cowboys they got in screwed up 18K of piles. We were charge up and did a awesome job imho and it cost them 6k more. For 2 houses.
The house I want one day will be a freaking simple box with lots of space. Im too practical to want lots of corners in a house. Id rather swap corners for space. Im going to spend more time in my house rather than standing outside it admiring my homes awesome shape.
Times wise for a simple T shaped home with double garage (internal access) @ around 260sqmters brick and tiles home, we have done one in just under 4 weeks from slab to us walking away. Sparkies ,plumbers, plasterers and some odds n ends to attend to but 99% of our work was done. Well managed site. No changes by client (except for partion wall in master bedroom but that was no big deal)

Interesting home there Brett. Is that hot block masonry ? I like the rough painted finish. do the windows have a drip edge ? (im anal about directing moisture away )

[Brett]

One thing not covered much here is the hangover from the leaky building. Alot of good trades people got burned. They built to code but the code was pretty crap, let alone the wankers short cutting a bad solution. Even now Ill never do a stucco clad home.
Im liable for failure of any buildings Im involved with for rather a long time. And as someone who at this stage just wants to take home a wage/self employed I have to consider that I might be working for minimum or less should I have to defend work Ive been involved with.
Even if Im not the main signatory using his lbp number, Ill be listed in the record of work at the end of the job.
Some of the large spec home companies want the builds to cost very little. One job we quoted on (state home) allowed 560.00 to install 20 windows and doors. I have seen the people who can do it for that and the joinery looks crap and they are fixed with a framing gun. We lost the contract but got the job after the cowboys they got in screwed up 18K of piles. We were charge up and did a awesome job imho and it cost them 6k more. For 2 houses.
The house I want one day will be a freaking simple box with lots of space. Im too practical to want lots of corners in a house. Id rather swap corners for space. Im going to spend more time in my house rather than standing outside it admiring my homes awesome shape.
Times wise for a simple T shaped home with double garage (internal access) @ around 260sqmters brick and tiles home, we have done one in just under 4 weeks from slab to us walking away. Sparkies ,plumbers, plasterers and some odds n ends to attend to but 99% of our work was done. Well managed site. No changes by client (except for partion wall in master bedroom but that was no big deal)

Interesting home there Brett. Is that hot block masonry ? I like the rough painted finish. do the windows have a drip edge ? (im anal about directing moisture away )

On the money comments there mate. I wouldn't want to touch stucco either. In fact, I wont engage in residential projects that are not brick, stone, ply/batten or weatherboard clad. Not keen on those shingle over ply roofs either. Happy with tiles (clay or concrete) and most of the metal profile stuff.

Yeah, the finish on that house - most people either loved it or hated it (only a handful of haters, most loved it). It's a bag-wash finish over a Monier Presto double height brick - bricks were seconds for added irregularity and character (also being 70% of the price of firsts). Personally I absolutely LOVE this finish, especially when lit up at night with nice copper up-down canister lights - looked very very cool. Yes, windows had a drip edge. The inside on that place came up exceptionally well - I tried a few new things and some new paint colours etc. and it exceeded my expectations. For what was a project where cost was very tightly managed, it doesn't look it. (I know what expensive CAN be...have also built projects where cost has been no consideration!)

Haven't done too much with Hot Blocks, but was thinking of making our next house (our own personal house) a project using them.

[badlieutenant]

On the money comments there mate. I wouldn't want to touch stucco either. In fact, I wont engage in residential projects that are not brick, stone, ply/batten or weatherboard clad. Not keen on those shingle over ply roofs either. Happy with tiles (clay or concrete) and most of the metal profile stuff.

Yeah, the finish on that house - most people either loved it or hated it (only a handful of haters, most loved it). It's a bag-wash finish over a Monier Presto double height brick - bricks were seconds for added irregularity and character (also being 70% of the price of firsts). Personally I absolutely LOVE this finish, especially when lit up at night with nice copper up-down canister lights - looked very very cool. Yes, windows had a drip edge. The inside on that place came up exceptionally well - I tried a few new things and some new paint colors etc. and it exceeded my expectations. For what was a project where cost was very tightly managed, it doesn't look it. (I know what expensive CAN be...have also built projects where cost has been no consideration!)

Haven't done too much with Hot Blocks, but was thinking of making our next house (our own personal house) a project using them.

kewl reminds me of one of my favorite projects on grand designs. The one with the very onto it chick that sourced brick rejects to achieve a similar look. And she came under budget and in time.
Ive only a done a couple of projects in masonry (out karaka development) and its a awesome product in terms of performance but cost wise its pretty dear from what I can tell. Just the weight of it demands greater structural design. you will get sick to death of tying steel And do not ever forget to put a service in before a grout pour (or at any stage) In terms of look and performance/cost I think yours is better
The bitumen based slate looking product looked like it would work pretty well so long as your not on tank supply.

In terms of building cost in nz, from my perspective, its not the builders making things more expensive. We seem to go thru a 15 year cycle of the same hourly rate then a bump up then the same for ages. Nor do we have job security. Im normally planning 3-4 months in advance but plans can fall thru. Its not for money I like my job that's for sure.
I wouldn't be surprised if fuel contributes alot these days as well. I go thru a heap of fuel dragging all my tools around, and some jobs can be over an hours drive. let alone delivery of supplies and their compliance costs for that company.

[Brian d marge]

ahhh fuk it with your 15k compliance costs and you 1200 yen per meter

Ill just shoot you dead and take your house

33 days and counting

if the consistory terrorist are to be believed


Stephen

[Swoop]

Architect training is far more about art than science or engineering.

An architect mate stated "the only thing that stays in an architect's head for more than an hour is a cold".
He was correct too.
Most architects are designing monuments to themselves. One I knew, was asked to come up with a basic "shed" for a sports club, which would have only a couple of fixed requirements. The result... A fucking huge monument to him and his stupidity.

However. On a one-off design that needs to stand out in a world of mediocrity, an architect will come up with breath-taking ideas.

[Ocean1]

More than a little truth to this, too.

"To take a couple of examples, planning rules in Auckland require apartments to be at least 40 square metres," English said.

"And balconies are now required to be 8sqm. These two rules alone add around $80 per week to the rent."

Other rules included minimum subdivision size, ceiling height and even the minimum width of a front door, all adding to costs


http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/mone...prices-English

[BMWST?]

40 sq m is only slightly larger than a double garage,how much smaller do you want to go

[Ocean1]

40 sq m is only slightly larger than a double garage,how much smaller do you want to go

Me? Actually a bit less space wouldn't be a bad idea.

But the correct question is "What reasonable business is it of town hall what size balcony the guy paying for it wants to build"?

And the correct answer is "None whatsoever".

[BMWST?]

Who then assures that your building meets the minimum stds of the building code