The rear brake. Who uses it?

[Shaun Harris]

There's still plenty of cases where a slipper clutch isn't the entire answer. For instance, Taupo heading to the sweeper before the main straight I don't change up to fifth I just keep it in the same gear. But that means I get to the braking area with 14,000rpm on board and when I close the throttle and brake the engine momentarily locks the rear wheel, which causes the wheel to leave the ground for a split second because the shock is able to react a lot quicker than the slipper clutch. It repeats this a couple of times so it's the classic engine braking lock up problem until the slipper clutch reacts and cancels it out.

In that case the rear brake helps.

Either that or I fiddle the computer and take 3 degrees of ignition advance out over 12,500rpm @ 0% throttle, which is what I've done cos it's easier than learning to use the rear brake again

ok an old school technique to avoid the real wheel lock up due to engine breaking going down, SLIP the clutch? as in you do exactually the opposite to what you do with the clutch to get going to eradicate the engine breaking taking over the rear wheel actions. Even with slipper clutches it is some thing I still did up to the last time I was on a bike out of old habits and it is dam easy to do without pissing around with anything else and is so marginal on the usage of level of concentration left in the think tank it;s a no brainer to adapt too

[Robert Taylor]

ok an old school technique to avoid the real wheel lock up due to engine breaking going down, SLIP the clutch? as in you do exactually the opposite to what you do with the clutch to get going to eradicate the engine breaking taking over the rear wheel actions. Even with slipper clutches it is some thing I still did up to the last time I was on a bike out of old habits and it is dam easy to do without pissing around with anything else and is so marginal on the usage of level of concentration left in the think tank it;s a no brainer to adapt too

And I remember vividly you being practically the only person riding in the wet in a practice session at TerribleTonga back about 11-12 years ago. There were those in the pits saying ''whats that idiot doing riding out there in those conditions? ". But the reality is that you had the wet setup and practice time.

Our protestant God has dealt you some cruel blows in your build spec i.e hair colour, lack of vertical disposition and some attitudinal issues but you were so right in what you were doing that day

[Mental Trousers]

ok an old school technique to avoid the real wheel lock up due to engine breaking going down, SLIP the clutch? as in you do exactually the opposite to what you do with the clutch to get going to eradicate the engine breaking taking over the rear wheel actions. Even with slipper clutches it is some thing I still did up to the last time I was on a bike out of old habits and it is dam easy to do without pissing around with anything else and is so marginal on the usage of level of concentration left in the think tank it;s a no brainer to adapt too

Yeah that works too.

[suzuki21]

Slipper clutches make people lazy as they think they don't need to blip the throttle on down changes. Normal excuse is "I have a slipper clutch I don't need to. Enjoy thinking about the rear stepping out and screwing corner entry. The expensive shift kits blip the throttle automatically on down changes for no reason obviously.

[Shaun Harris]

Slipper clutches make people lazy as they think they don't need to blip the throttle on down changes. Normal excuse is "I have a slipper clutch I don't need to. Enjoy thinking about the rear stepping out and screwing corner entry. The expensive shift kits blip the throttle automatically on down changes for no reason obviously.

It's about making love not just rooting to us old folk when it comes to riding them writely and knowing which buttons to push obviously helps some thing that only Practice will make perfect

[Robert Taylor]

Slipper clutches make people lazy as they think they don't need to blip the throttle on down changes. Normal excuse is "I have a slipper clutch I don't need to. Enjoy thinking about the rear stepping out and screwing corner entry. The expensive shift kits blip the throttle automatically on down changes for no reason obviously.

And its another setup parameter

[GrayWolf]

I guess it's a sign of the times? We were taught to use BOTH brakes when coming to a stop, and some bikes (My old FJ1200 a good example) a trailing rear brake, was a good thing in medium tightness corners.

As for technical discussion, I can accept there could be argument on the racetrack for different rear brake applications, but Moto Guzzi for many years was the ONLY exponent of a linked brake system. I owned 2 of these, a Spada and an 1100 California. The system used 1 front and the rear on the rear brake and 1 front disc on the handlebar lever. It was weird at first to mainly use the rear pedal, but, there was no dive, the bike simply 'squatted' under braking, and the dive on application of the front lever as well was greatly reduced.
I believe Nonda has experimented with dual/linked brake systems? So there must be validity in the use of both in tandem.

[Shaun Harris]

I guess it's a sign of the times? We were taught to use BOTH brakes when coming to a stop, and some bikes (My old FJ1200 a good example) a trailing rear brake, was a good thing in medium tightness corners.

As for technical discussion, I can accept there could be argument on the racetrack for different rear brake applications, but Moto Guzzi for many years was the ONLY exponent of a linked brake system. I owned 2 of these, a Spada and an 1100 California. The system used 1 front and the rear on the rear brake and 1 front disc on the handlebar lever. It was weird at first to mainly use the rear pedal, but, there was no dive, the bike simply 'squatted' under braking, and the dive on application of the front lever as well was greatly reduced.
I believe Nonda has experimented with dual/linked brake systems? So there must be validity in the use of both in tandem.

Most things have been experimented with regarding brakes man, I know a guy who was employed by triumph uk for a period of 2 years just working on brake systems. Tandem linked brakes and ABS brakes to me on a motorbike are not the way to go, as I know for sure I can stop faster on NON ABS brakes than I can with them, but as an reasnoable ex racer I prob have better braking skills than your average road rider.

[Drew]

Most things have been experimented with regarding brakes man, I know a guy who was employed by triumph uk for a period of 2 years just working on brake systems. Tandem linked brakes and ABS brakes to me on a motorbike are not the way to go, as I know for sure I can stop faster on NON ABS brakes than I can with them, but as an reasnoable ex racer I prob have better braking skills than your average road rider.

You know for sure? You've tested on a bike and proven it?

I know for sure that I should be able to outbrake ABS, I've been told I'm wrong and I can't find a single video of anyone beating an ABS bike in stopping distance.

[quickbuck]

Most things have been experimented with regarding brakes man, I know a guy who was employed by triumph uk for a period of 2 years just working on brake systems. Tandem linked brakes and ABS brakes to me on a motorbike are not the way to go, as I know for sure I can stop faster on NON ABS brakes than I can with them, but as an reasnoable ex racer I prob have better braking skills than your average road rider.

Actually Shaun, you would stop at the same rate...... ABS is not a cleaver thing that thinks you are stopping too quickly and releases the brake pressure on you.....

What it does is detects when a wheel stops rotating and then releases pressure to allow it to rotate.

So if you brake and never lock a wheel then ABS will never kick in.


It is there so you can still stop the motorcycle if your only option is to ride down the wet paint....



Sent from my Nokia using Tapa talk.

[Shaun Harris]

You know for sure? You've tested on a bike and proven it?

I know for sure that I should be able to outbrake ABS, I've been told I'm wrong and I can't find a single video of anyone beating an ABS bike in stopping distance.

3 years ago on the road but cannot remember what the bikes were that I compared but they were very simillar but not identical

[oneofsix]

You know for sure? You've tested on a bike and proven it?

I know for sure that I should be able to outbrake ABS, I've been told I'm wrong and I can't find a single video of anyone beating an ABS bike in stopping distance.

I've seen a non-ABS bike out brake ABS, but I have also seen the opposite when the guy on the non-ABS bike was a bit tied after a day on riding, both the same two guys on the same two bikes. When a good rider is on the top of their game they can out brake ABS but given the advantage ABS gives overall I would still go with it if I had the choice.

[Shaun Harris]

I've seen a non-ABS bike out brake ABS, but I have also seen the opposite when the guy on the non-ABS bike was a bit tied after a day on riding, both the same two guys on the same two bikes. When a good rider is on the top of their game they can out brake ABS but given the advantage ABS gives overall I would still go with it if I had the choice.

To be honest, I too agree with the ABS system for most riders

[suzuki21]

Most things have been experimented with regarding brakes man, I know a guy who was employed by triumph uk for a period of 2 years just working on brake systems. Tandem linked brakes and ABS brakes to me on a motorbike are not the way to go, as I know for sure I can stop faster on NON ABS brakes than I can with them, but as an reasnoable ex racer I prob have better braking skills than your average road rider.

I agree Shaun. For the people that doubt this can be possible, can they explain what would happen when braking down a hill? Chris Seaton can after jumping on the Trinder Superbike from his earlier model RSV4 on boxing day. What happens is that when your rear end lifts above the ground a little your ABS releases braking pressure and you enter the corner to fast and hit hay bales. It got disconnected very quickly after that so he could brake harder. I would say that ABS is more useful to a rider that snatches the lever and the front locks when wet. But that's not through poor braking performance, that's from a poor habit.

[Shaun Harris]

I agree Shaun. For the people that doubt this can be possible, can they explain what would happen when braking down a hill? Chris Seaton can after jumping on the Trinder Superbike from his earlier model RSV4 on boxing day. What happens is that when your rear end lifts above the ground a little your ABS releases braking pressure and you enter the corner to fast and hit hay bales. It got disconnected very quickly after that so he could brake harder. I would say that ABS is more useful to a rider that snatches the lever and the front locks when wet. But that's not through poor braking performance, that's from a poor habit.

exactually Steve, and most road riders in an emergency would snatch at the break leaver as the do not practice emergency stops so naturally a panick mode kicks in causing them to snatch the brake leaver/s