The rear brake. Who uses it?

[quickbuck]

exactually Steve, and most road riders in an emergency would snatch at the break leaver as the do not practice emergency stops so naturally a panick mode kicks in causing them to snatch the brake leaver/s

You are correct, most would, as most road riders think they know better than to do the course.....



I still maintain that you would stop exactly as quickly on an identical bike with ABS as you would on one without..... It is just a case of you won't actually be using the system.



What happened to Seato is a little bit of a guess in my opinion.



Hey, I too wasn't a fan of ABS. Then it was pointed out that it is the same as traction control.... Can riders ride faster without it?

A well set up bike will not have it cut in so early, as there will be no need for it to....

Granted, it will cut in later and provide traction. But a poorly set up bike will rely on it earlier.
Same thing happens if I put cheap tyres on the car in both ABS and Traction Control. Suspension tends to be constant on most cars....





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[Ocean1]

You know for sure? You've tested on a bike and proven it?

I know for sure that I should be able to outbrake ABS, I've been told I'm wrong and I can't find a single video of anyone beating an ABS bike in stopping distance.

Here's another one that won't prove your point: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dYvV4zr7iE

Look at 4:50. It's a sales tool, so you can take it with a grain of salt if you like, but the latest systems are an awful lot better than the last generation, which in turn were better than almost every pro racer tested.

[suzuki21]

You are correct, most would, as most road riders think they know better than to do the course.....

What happened to Seato is a little bit of a guess in my opinion.

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The ABS kicked in when weight was transferring to the front, the lever pushed out and he went wide, he braked as he would on the other bike without ABS. I didn't guess, I was the one that disconnected it for him. He had no confidence using it at all he wanted to tell the bike what to do - not the other way round.

[quickbuck]

The ABS kicked in when weight was transferring to the front, the lever pushed out and he went wide, he braked as he would on the other bike without ABS. I didn't guess, I was the one that disconnected it for him. He had no confidence using it at all he wanted to tell the bike what to do - not the other way round.

Oh, I see.....
A confidence issue. THAT is important too. Not saying he had an issue with ability at all.
I would say that the rate of deceleration was the same as normal though, for that exact situation..... Extremely hard to prove though as you need to ride over the exact same piece of road at the exact same speed applying the exact same pressure rah de rah to prove or disprove it.....

Yes confidence in machinery takes a higher priority than any aids.





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[Mental Trousers]

The thing with what happened to Seato was the ABS kicked in when the rear end left the ground. He was probably quite happy with the back end in air a bit and not bothered by it at all, but the ABS was programmed to keep both wheels on the ground and doing roughly the same speed.

Reprogramming the computer would be able to sort it out and race ABS systems that are being developed usually take this sort of thing into account.

[quickbuck]

The thing with what happened to Seato was the ABS kicked in when the rear end left the ground. He was probably quite happy with the back end in air a bit and not bothered by it at all, but the ABS was programmed to keep both wheels on the ground and doing roughly the same speed.

Reprogramming the computer would be able to sort it out and race ABS systems that are being developed usually take this sort of thing into account.

Ah, true that....
See it clearly now that I am awake and not scrolling through my phone......

[scracha]

exactually Steve, and most road riders in an emergency would snatch at the break leaver as the do not practice emergency stops so naturally a panick mode kicks in causing them to snatch the brake leaver/s

Practise all you like. If you're riding along minding your own business and a truck unexpectedly pulled out in front of you I guarantee you would (at least initially) grab a handful and stomp on the rear.

[nzspokes]

Im kinda interested in this topic as at my last track day the instructor said to try a little rear brake to stabilize the bike as you go into turn 5 at Hampton.

I didnt as I had only just got the bike and found I couldnt get to the rear brake while hanging of it(well my version of hanging off at least).

[codgyoleracer]

yes Tony I think is is. it actually does help reduce speed which is what it was intended for, so based on that alone, it most deff has a place still for racers and road raiders as a safety control. A smidgeon of time gained on each corner entry adds up after 6 or so breaking turns compounding on lap after lap till end of race.

Thats correct, i "discovered" this for myself as a young fellah at Pukekohe trying to slow down for the 50kph hairpin from 280 clicks, - the rear brake slowed the inertia of the rear wheel and whilst the grip available from the rear is far less due to it only "just" being on contact with the track surface , I found i could brake 5m - 10m later consistently by using a little bit of rear brake.

The geometry affects that Shaun talks about are also valuable in many other types of corners (or inbetween a series of corners)

The only problem with recommending its use, is that most rear brake system lack "feel" and unless you understand cause and effect - it can be a "tough lesson" to learn if you get it wrong.

Personally i avoid the use of rear brake in the wet - as i never had enough "feel" for its effect, - and the downsides were far worse than the upsides. (or should that be lowsides :-) )

[codgyoleracer]

The ABS kicked in when weight was transferring to the front, the lever pushed out and he went wide, he braked as he would on the other bike without ABS. I didn't guess, I was the one that disconnected it for him. He had no confidence using it at all he wanted to tell the bike what to do - not the other way round.

Its becoming a minefield now Steve, with electronic front suspenion not far of being "affordable " on production machines that can stop that sorta thing happening before it becomes an issue. Dammed electronics, love en or hate em, they will keep improving and will even make the super-fast guys like Seato faster , and the average guys feel "safer" :-)

[Shaun Harris]

rear brake with to much power or lack of feal as some may put it, bleed AIR into the system so it works as a chassis ballancing tool,but not enough power to lock up the rear wheel but will still help reduce speed as it is intended

[nzspokes]

rear brake with to much power or lack of feal as some may put it, bleed AIR into the system so it works as a chassis ballancing tool,but not enough power to lock up the rear wheel but will still help reduce speed as it is intended

Would cutting out sections of the pads do the same thing and keep lever feel?

[Shaun Harris]

Would cutting out sections of the pads do the same thing and keep lever feel?

I would never fuk with the structure of some thing designed by engineers man like pads, so cannot say yes or no as I have never tried that, but my guess would be NO as it still has the pressure in the line

[nzspokes]

I would never fuk with the structure of some thing designed by engineers man like pads, so cannot say yes or no as I have never tried that, but my guess would be NO as it still has the pressure in the line

To be clear i was thinking slotting the pad material to reduce pad contact patch with the rotor not cut chunks out of the pad back plate.

But I guess this may not work.

[codgyoleracer]

To be clear i was thinking slotting the pad material to reduce pad contact patch with the rotor not cut chunks out of the pad back plate.

But I guess this may not work.

Yep, been there done that, it seems to work well + buy the cheapest crap rear pads you can find