The cheater MX85 argument. I might be changing my mind.

[Drew]

industry std old school dynojet.

Why? I'd have thought you would want consistency.

[husaberg]

And I have always struggled with that. I don't want to see a competition engine that would make my bike obsolete.

The running costs make them attractive, much more attractive than they were 10 years ago.

But there are dynos & dynos. If your from the net curves are truly indicative (and thanks for posting) then I'm a bit worried. If they are spiced by a optimistic dyno then there needs to be some control.

The problem with dirtbikes is they have bumpy tyres so just running them up on the dyno isn't that easy. The other factor is MX is surrounded by huge swaths of bullshot marketing to get Dad to part with his spare money so Junior can achieve Minibike glory and make up for his own inadequacies. Heck if my kids start MX I'll probably be as pulled in to tuning them as I am with buckets. Maybe that's a reason to keep them away from bikes as I don't have time enough & it would cut deeply into my riding. My Dad didn't stop playing golf to buy me a YZ80 & take me to meetings.

Anyhoo, there isn't a heap of dyno curve out there, or maybe there are some more. Just would love to see where they were at on a industry std old school dynojet.

Yeah i know what you are saying about dyno and Dyno's i had a look came up with this.

Frank Nye from Engines Only ( www.xr100.com ) is developing products for the new CRF150R and he posted this dyno run of a bone stock 150 with 3 hours on it. It's pretty impressive stock.
http://xr100.com/dyno%20charts/150RB%20stock.jpg

http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/...nziehl/013.jpg
http://images.motorcycle-usa.com/Pho..._hp_torque.jpg
http://www.xr100.com/dyno%20charts/CRF150R2694.jpg
https://www.hindle.com/Dyno_Charts/O...HindleFull.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2.../crf150mod.jpg

The mini MX in NZ has great rules, the bikes have to be totally stock other than jetting and tires and a few bling bits......
Don't worry though, the gear and the entries the travel accommodation and the consumables will keep you poor enough

[richban]

Yeah i know what you are saying about dyno and Dyno's i had a look came up with this.
rank Nye from Engines Only ( www.xr100.com ) is developing products for the new CRF150R and he posted this dyno run of a bone stock 150 with 3 hours on it. It's pretty impressive stock.
http://xr100.com/dyno%20charts/150RB%20stock.jpg

Yeah but stock is a very well sorted stock. The extra 5 will not come cheap and easy. Who cares anyway. The new 85's make that and have a 6 speed box. Not sure why you would look at a dyno graph. 400per litre and 200per litre is all I have to say. Is this going to be another one of those ooooooh its not fair coz the 4 strokes are 4 strokes and the 2 strokes are not as fast. ooooooooh! Poor me, its all about me. ahhhhhh I am old and stubborn. ooooohh I don't even ride anyway. Ahhhhhh oooooh ahhhh ooohh.

[Skunk]

Somebody add a poll: mx85 in or out. Sort the restrictions (if any) after that.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[husaberg]

Yeah but stock is a very well sorted stock. The extra 5 will not come cheap and easy. Who cares anyway. The new 85's make that and have a 6 speed box. Not sure why you would look at a dyno graph. 400per litre and 200per litre is all I have to say. Is this going to be another one of those ooooooh its not fair coz the 4 strokes are 4 strokes and the 2 strokes are not as fast. ooooooooh! Poor me, its all about me. ahhhhhh I am old and stubborn. ooooohh I don't even ride anyway. Ahhhhhh oooooh ahhhh ooohh.

All true, but HP is only part of the equation in racing, which is why the four strokes still win more so than the 2 strokes with the current rules.
I am not sure what the 09 and up KTM85 makes but if it is anything like the new ktm50 and 65 it is pretty much a case reed Aprilia......
Some have suggested the 85 haven't changed in years BULLSHIT the newer KTM85 and 105 puts lie to this


The stock for a MX bike i would say is detuned 15-20% for ridabilty on dirt compared to a Road racer spec.

Somebody add a poll: mx85 in or out. Sort the restrictions (if any) after that.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

How the heck can you have a poll when you will sort out the details on what people are voting for after........

[Skunk]

No point arguing details if you don't know if it has a chance to get through. The poll is an indication not a binding agreement. The argument can go on and on - while most don't want it. Cut to the point then develop.


If it ain't smokin', it's broken.

[kel]

Heres a dyno graph for you. A 94cc bolt up Derbi kit

Yep that's 30hp. Why worry about an 85cc motocrosser when you can all ready buy and use one of these.
The 2 stroke platforms are pretty much gone (other than those stock piled by ESE), and the old air coolers that make decent power are a major safety hazard. The 85's are a great idea, it will make the sport more attractive and available to new comers, keep the tinkers amused, and make the sport safer. Im all for it, and 4 stroke boys can have their CRF's too!
Let go of the past and embrace the future, Kumbaya my brothers.

[richban]

Heres a dyno graph for you. A 94cc bolt up Derbi kit

Yep that's 30hp. Why worry about 85cc motocross when you can all ready buy and use one of these.

But they are for racing and are marketed for racing. So illegal.

[kel]

But they are for racing and are marketed for racing. So illegal.

The rules don't give a rats arse about how they are marketed. They are after market parts for an AM6, a non-competition motorcycle sold in the millions.
Or do you mean the motocrosser? That one is illegal.

[Drew]

The rules don't give a rats arse about how they are marketed. They are after market parts for an AM6, a non-competition motorcycle sold in the millions.

This should be fun. Someone used the same argument for those pit bike things. A better motor was marketed as a 'race motor' and they were deemed not legal by the majority.

[speedpro]

The 150's have a bore and stroke of 66 x 43.7. I suspect that none of your present 150's in buckets have a bore size as large as that

One of course is way bigger than that

[kel]

Someone used the same argument for those pit bike things.

Ha, no one said we couldn't randomly discriminate against others. Johnny motard thinking he could race with us, the cheek of it.

[husaberg]

No point arguing details if you don't know if it has a chance to get through. The poll is an indication not a binding agreement. The argument can go on and on - while most don't want it. Cut to the point then develop.

No point in having a poll if what you are voting for is unclear?
Unscrupulous people have been known to use poll results to prove it is what the people want..........
if you have a poll say something like let in MX85 restricted, let in mx85 unrestricted, staus quo or free for all 103.5 ish vs 150 whatever.....

[quallman1234]

And I have always struggled with that. I don't want to see a competition engine that would make my bike obsolete.

The running costs make them attractive, much more attractive than they were 10 years ago.

But there are dynos & dynos. If your from the net curves are truly indicative (and thanks for posting) then I'm a bit worried. If they are spiced by a optimistic dyno then there needs to be some control.

The problem with dirtbikes is they have bumpy tyres so just running them up on the dyno isn't that easy. The other factor is MX is surrounded by huge swaths of bullshot marketing to get Dad to part with his spare money so Junior can achieve Minibike glory and make up for his own inadequacies. Heck if my kids start MX I'll probably be as pulled in to tuning them as I am with buckets. Maybe that's a reason to keep them away from bikes as I don't have time enough & it would cut deeply into my riding. My Dad didn't stop playing golf to buy me a YZ80 & take me to meetings.

Anyhoo, there isn't a heap of dyno curve out there, or maybe there are some more. Just would love to see where they were at on a industry std old school dynojet.

We have had our one on the dyno @ ~16hp (cant quite remember will get glen to post the curve tomorrow). Our dyno has a tendancy to run a couple hp below a dynojet.
In real life on a kart track it was faster than a stock FXR but couldnt compete with a hot fxr.
They are also not the easiest engines to put in a road chassis as the engine mount is part of the swingarm pivot. So nothing really lines up greatly.
Stock RM85 with new top end.

[husaberg]

We have had our one on the dyno @ ~16hp (cant quite remember will get glen to post the curve tomorrow). Our dyno has a tendancy to run a couple hp below a dynojet.
In real life on a kart track it was faster than a stock FXR but couldnt compete with a hot fxr.
They are also not the easiest engines to put in a road chassis as the engine mount is part of the swingarm pivot. So nothing really lines up greatly.
Stock RM85 with new top end.

out of interest anyone ever dynoed a Stock MB100 or GP125?