Tesla releases patents

[R650R]

Read somewhere that the work going into making the batteries that run vehicles is worse for the environment than good old crude oil extraction and associated emissions...p

That's one if my pet peeves against the blissfull ignorance of the green movement. Yes let's use cleaner better new technology but don't go trying to say its magnitudes cleaner.
Yes lots of heavy metals and rare earth minerals needed for batteries and electronic controls, then the plastics for housings etc all that means industrial mining and need for petroleum products.
Don't get me started on wind turbines with their 60-400L of transmission oil in their gearboxes...

[bogan]

That's one if my pet peeves against the blissfull ignorance of the green movement. Yes let's use cleaner better new technology but don't go trying to say its magnitudes cleaner.
Yes lots of heavy metals and rare earth minerals needed for batteries and electronic controls, then the plastics for housings etc all that means industrial mining and need for petroleum products.
Don't get me started on wind turbines with their 60-400L of transmission oil in their gearboxes...

Not all of the green movement is blissfully ignorant, but the movement towards greener technology does benefit us all.

How many kWhrs does that 60-400L of oil last in a windmill?

[Ocean1]

Patent law is absolutely fucked, too much room for 'offensive' patents rather than the 'defensive' patents it was set out to provide.

Patent law hasn't always been fucked, it's original concept has been ambushed.

I mean, patents on genome data? Fuck off.

Patent to protect your fucking good idea from immediately being copied by another business? Of course. No patents = no industrial R&D.

[Ocean1]

That's one if my pet peeves against the blissfull ignorance of the green movement. Yes let's use cleaner better new technology but don't go trying to say its magnitudes cleaner.
Yes lots of heavy metals and rare earth minerals needed for batteries and electronic controls, then the plastics for housings etc all that means industrial mining and need for petroleum products.
Don't get me started on wind turbines with their 60-400L of transmission oil in their gearboxes...

I agree. As it happens all of those rare minerals and metals are easy enough to recover, the plastics even easier, you've just got to make it extremely difficult to avoid those costs. Germany's got that one right, recovery costs built into the purchase price.

[R650R]

Not all of the green movement is blissfully ignorant, but the movement towards greener technology does benefit us all.

How many kWhrs does that 60-400L of oil last in a windmill?

It's not a benefit if we're taxed into oblivian so they can get the govt subsidies to make it work, not to mention the energy wasted by having hydro/coal/gas stations still spooled up as back up when wind drops (you can't just suddenly turn up output on big stations without network loading being unbalanced and nuking the whole system).

Oil, prob not long. The shear load on the gears in those turbines is phenomenal and they are still trying to engineer a suitable oil product specific for it. At the moment they need frequent changes and complex filtration so they don't overheat and catch fire which quite a few of the early models already have done. Ever wondered why they don't have all the turbines in a wind farm spinning, cause they don't want to wear them out to quick....

[AllanB]

Watched a interesting doco about The London Array (google it) - worlds largest wind farm off-shore of England. Will NZ get something similar?

Greenies may offer tax incentives if they get any Govt power.

[BoristheBiter]

It's not a benefit if we're taxed into oblivian so they can get the govt subsidies to make it work, not to mention the energy wasted by having hydro/coal/gas stations still spooled up as back up when wind drops (you can't just suddenly turn up output on big stations without network loading being unbalanced and nuking the whole system).

Oil, prob not long. The shear load on the gears in those turbines is phenomenal and they are still trying to engineer a suitable oil product specific for it. At the moment they need frequent changes and complex filtration so they don't overheat and catch fire which quite a few of the early models already have done. Ever wondered why they don't have all the turbines in a wind farm spinning, cause they don't want to wear them out to quick....

especially if it's too windy.

[Akzle]

No patents = no industrial R&D.

did you miss the bit about how this company did all their r&d, basically for free, and are now giving it to everyone, for free?

[Ocean1]

did you miss the bit about how this company did all their r&d, basically for free, and are now giving it to everyone, for free?

No. Good on them, but did you look at the patents? There's no doubt altruism involved, but their market is changing so fast they're worthless months after they're lodged.

In the meantime who's going to buy the groceries for the techies developing the next bunch of tricks?

[R650R]

Will NZ get something similar?

My interest extends only to pointing out the money pit the current designs are and that they are far from green when you factor in subsidies (tax payers generate emmisions working to pay tax) and associated manufacture/transport/install/maintenance activity/backup power emmisions.
I forgot to mention in my original rant how the greens love how cleaner rail is (only by about 25%) but forget what gets the freight to the railhead/station from/to the client when doing their numbers...
Will look up that link and have a look.

Google James Delingpole, he does some supreme write-ups well researched for the Gaurdian or Telegraph in UK on the lies of green energy.

Did see an interesting story other day of a low level turbine that works on venture type effect and needs very little wind. Looks like it would be great for use on an individual household basis.

[R650R]

Speaking of patenst and new technology etc we all know how the car that runs on water thing keeps getting hidden away.
And every time those things are on the news they never really explain the concept.
Well I came across this in my travels, interesting concept although the guy does say there would issues with corrosion of cylinder parts without right materials.
Basically its about using excess heat from engine to inject steam into the cylinder just after combustion for extra expansion.
Bit of a messy write up but interesting....

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/threestepengine.html

[Laava]

There is nothing new about using water to run a car. It can be done as steam or it can be seperated into it's elements and combusted. Both methods are extremely dangerous and that is why it has not been done mainstream.

[bogan]

It's not a benefit if we're taxed into oblivian so they can get the govt subsidies to make it work, not to mention the energy wasted by having hydro/coal/gas stations still spooled up as back up when wind drops (you can't just suddenly turn up output on big stations without network loading being unbalanced and nuking the whole system).

Oil, prob not long. The shear load on the gears in those turbines is phenomenal and they are still trying to engineer a suitable oil product specific for it. At the moment they need frequent changes and complex filtration so they don't overheat and catch fire which quite a few of the early models already have done. Ever wondered why they don't have all the turbines in a wind farm spinning, cause they don't want to wear them out to quick....

Yeh, it still would be, as the world would be greener. Keeping hydro etc spooled up is up to fuck all for wasted energy.

Point I'm making is you get a hell of a lot more kWhr for your oil investment on a big wind turbine than you get by just burning it.

You seem to be confusing green energy with free energy, greener energy is a very worthy goal, not being as green as free doesn't mean it isn't worth pursuing the fuck out of.

[mashman]

So Jews can get enough money to buy more jewgold.

I must give you gold stars.

[R650R]

Point I'm making is you get a hell of a lot more kWhr for your oil investment on a big wind turbine than you get by just burning it.

I don't think you do as it violates a basic engineering principle of taking the energy from point of release via extra channels to the place its needed. Its like have two gearboxes attached to a motor when one could do the job.
There is a huge amount of energy used and emmisions made from the start with companies design/build testing, political hot air/debate and then the transport/install/repair phases and new connection to grid etc.
These turbines are supposed to last 25-30 years but many of them are struggling to make 20 with many worn out after 15...
Wind power will be a good thing when its in a local package going to direct to the consumer, ie the small ones on lifestyle blocks/baches etc But it will never be that way as the govts/corporates lose a control mechanism over the people, they seriously don't want people making their own energy sources.
Wind power at the moment is like already owning a DR650 to ride to work on but buying an RS125 to use less petrol but leaving the DR650 running in the driveway incase its needed and also buying the RS125 on finance at say 30%. And then only using the RS125 for 50 out of 365 days of the years etc...