A new brand of chinese "sports bikes"?

[Dave-]

I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!

There's an app for that now

[GrayWolf]

The Chinese must be laughing themselves silly at our 2 dollar shop mentality.

In a similar vein, so were the Japanese back in the mid 80's in the early days of cheap Jap import cars.

They must have been having a great laugh at the crazy round eyes buying up all their cars that were due to head off to the wrecking yard.

And again, us old fuckers will remember the 1960's "made in Hong Kong'.. or the cheap Japanese radios, cars, electrical items that were produced. Cheap, tacky, often brittle, but for the price?? The 2 Dollar mentality has been around since 'ages ago'....

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

[GrayWolf]

There seems to be a big difference though, the Japanese were making huge leaps in technology and trying to produce better bikes than everyone else (whether they did or not is a matter of opinion) the Chinese seem happy to use old designs and just produce a cheap product that does the job. When I start seeing Chinese bikes competing and being competitive in racing, and coming up with fresh ideas and designs I will consider buying one, it can't be that hard, people build bikes and cars in their garages and every now and then they produce something special

The point being made is that the 'incumbent' bike riders simply bagged the Japanese bikes as, poorly made, crap metal, shit alloy, instarust chrome, will fall to bits in a week, etc etc... and this was in the UK with British bikes, that every run, at least one bike broke down, (at least)... bits would fall of from vibration, etc, etc.. and of course because of the 'crap alloy' and 'cheese like metals' they'll never last, will need rebuilding every couple of years...

Funnny thing is? there are more 1960's small cc Jap bikes, and more H1, H2, GT750's, CB750's etc running about in original condition (non rebuilt engines) than there will ever be of Triumphs etc made in the same period.....

[Voltaire]

The generators and chillers where I work are made in China, they are top quality. The Chinese can make anything to your price or quality specification if you are prepared to pay for it.
Motorcycle were only entry level vehicles until you could afford a car, the Mini killed bike sales in the 60's as did the Fiat 500.
What do you need a spark eroder for...just chuck the part and buy a new one

[Katman]

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

I have never denied that the Chinese are capable of producing quality products. In fact I have stated on here that if you want the very best quality in the world there would be Chinese companies that could produce it.

The majority of their manufacturing though is set up to produce products at minimal cost for a world market that wants to pay as little as possible.

Until that changes the Chinese will continue to be known for their crap.

[unstuck]

I have never denied that the Chinese are capable of producing quality products. In fact I have stated on here that if you want the very best quality in the world there would be Chinese companies that could produce it.

The majority of their manufacturing though is set up to produce products at minimal cost for a world market that wants to pay as little as possible.

Until that changes the Chinese will continue to be known for their crap.

Exacerry.

[Katman]

I can assure you that the Chinese/Asians can and DO produce good quality.. for a quality price. Else why would High Profile manufacturers move production there?

And furthermore, the question of quality is not usually a problem associated with overseas manufacturers moving their production to China - (as long as the parent company vigorously maintains their quality control standards).

The problem lies with the Chinese manufacturers who have virtually nothing in the way of quality control standards.

[Flip]

The chineese have very high quality control standards.

The problem is in the short term low cost tends to drive quality down also.

You want Harley Davidson quality at a Chang Jang price and it doesent happen overnight.

[Katman]

The chineese have very high quality control standards.

Some Chinese companies have high quality control standards.

The majority of Chinese companies that are flooding the world market with cheap and nasty crap wouldn't even know the meaning of the phrase though.

[Akzle]

You want Harley Davidson quality...

haha! You do have a sense of humor afterall!

[Voltaire]

Some Chinese companies have high quality control standards.

The majority of Chinese companies that are flooding the world market with cheap and nasty crap wouldn't even know the meaning of the phrase though.

They probably say the same about here after the milk affair.
We get cheap crap here as we are a $2 shop economy and there no longer appears to be any standards enforced here.
I'm an Electrician by trade and some...most of the electrical stuff you can buy at some DIY places is absolute crap.

[speights_bud]

Yes and I am a 'Toolmaker' (or was) which means I am Higher National Cert, (equiv to a 'grade 1' mechanic?). My training and apprenticeship was done on 40yr old Wards, Churchill's, Colchester's etc... With beds so worn in places you had to learn how/when to apply or release a bit of pressure to keep the tool cutting straight. Or Jones Shipman surface grinders that came out of the ark... but we still had to work to 'general' tolerance of .5 thou.
What that bloody taught us was how to use your hands, develop SKILL in operating pieces of shyte,,, and still produce good quality.. in many Industries in the UK it wasnt shit workers, it (Brit bike makers for example) was Shit Management who were blind to investment.
ONCE I had qualified I was then put into the 'Toolroom' where we had up to date? equip and had to work to 1-2 tenths of a thousandth of an inch.... (a sheet of paper is approx 6 thousandths thick).....
Nothing wrong with using old technology gear... I wonder these days how many of the 'new generation' can use a spark eroder? Or make the 'Anodes' for them? Or operate a Profile Grinder? Lost skills!

At 25 I would say i'm probably one of the 'new generation'. I started my trade in Precision machining & Toolmaking in my last year of school (2006).
Its a pity really in some ways because Toolmaking is no longer available as a trade though the current training programs. I started out doing precision machining, Gear shaping, hobbing etc using old German/Czech/Engish gear, Pfauter, Tos, Lorenzo, Colchester. As you say learning how to fudge your way through less than ideal machining situations is half the fun!

I Turned to doing proper Toolmaking 3 years ago and now I daily use a Jones Shipman grinder, Exeter, Bridgeport etc. A bunch of our other manual machines are from the old era. I spark erode daily, machine & polish Graphite & Copper electrodes etc. Though the majority of my work is now CNC milled because of the speed/detail before being hand finished. Polishing is something I get a bit of a kick out of. Starting out with a machined surface and polishing to a lens quality mirror finish is pretty satisfying.

As you say Tolerances are tight, we usually work within 0.02mm as a rule of thumb, some more, some less. That's thinner than a ciggy paper.

[Ocean1]

The point being made is that the 'incumbent' bike riders simply bagged the Japanese bikes as, poorly made, crap metal, shit alloy, instarust chrome, will fall to bits in a week, etc etc.

Slightly related: I once split an SL125 tank, to correct some serious lumps. On the inside surface you could make out quite clearly the etched letters "ESSO", where the paint had been.

Typical Honda quality it was, it was also a recycled 44 gallon drum.

[Ocean1]

As you say Tolerances are tight, we usually work within 0.02mm as a rule of thumb, some more, some less. That's thinner than a ciggy paper.

Meh. When I were a nipper we 'ad to do that with nowt more than a lightly moistened toothpick.

Fuk'n yoof nowadays...

[unstuck]

Slightly related: I once split an SL125 tank, to correct some serious lumps. On the inside surface you could make out quite clearly the etched letters "ESSO", where the paint had been.

Typical Honda quality it was, it was also a recycled 44 gallon drum.

Now it would have Watties painted on the inside, and be a can and not a drum.