Suspension dyno

[Drew]

Out of interest Robert, would I get crosstalk in my VTR1k forks? I know they are old in design. Im very happy with them after the Gold Valves went in.

Interesting read.

We have electronic bicycle shocks that are terrain sensitive.

Yip. It's why manufacturers will often only put rebound adjusters on forks and shocks I reckon.

Robert, how say you savage?

[nzspokes]

And I must say its nice to see a thread on KB about a tech topic.

[Mental Trousers]

Further if i could arrange for 2-4 riders to come down is a Saturday morning/day sufficient?

Robert will answer, but here's what I do.

I turn up at their workshop as early as possible, pull the forks out, hand them over to Denis, pull the shock out, hand it over Robert. Then I try and stay out of the way (not always successful though) while they do their stuff. Once they're finished I put the forks and shock back in the bike. When it's all back together they do a measure, set preload and rebound on both ends, after which I load up and disappear.

This saves me up to 5 hours of labour on the CBR (not the nicest in the world to get the rear shock out but not the worst either), without which labour alone would be about 7-8 hours.

So pulling the suspension yourself in their workshop means you save a whole bunch of money but they also do the initial setup on the bike. Once that's done you ride it and tweak the clickers until it's as close to spot on as possible.

[caseye]

Robert will answer, but here's what I do.

I turn up at their workshop as early as possible, pull the forks out, hand them over to Denis, pull the shock out, hand it over Robert. Then I try and stay out of the way (not always successful though) while they do their stuff. Once they're finished I put the forks and shock back in the bike. When it's all back together they do a measure, set preload and rebound on both ends, after which I load up and disappear.

This saves me up to 5 hours of labour on the CBR (not the nicest in the world to get the rear shock out but not the worst either), without which labour alone would be about 7-8 hours.

So pulling the suspension yourself in their workshop means you save a whole bunch of money but they also do the initial setup on the bike. Once that's done you ride it and tweak the clickers until it's as close to spot on as possible.

Cheers mate, sounds like a plan!

[Robert Taylor]

The article didn't seem to say what bike the forks came from. At the end, it says the standard piston is shit (due to too small port area) and to replace it with Racetech items. You say in your opening statement that it's often cheaper and better to stick with original pistons, without going into specific models with too small a port area.

To sum up, I have learned nothing from the article. I did however learn why rebound clicker adjustment effects compression, though I knew already that it happened. That was from a reply to a specific question, directed at the good Doctor though.

Still summed up, I learned nothing from the article. Robert, I'm billing you for the ten minutes all of this has taken!

In your case you are a lost cause and the article wasnt targeted at you. In parallell that idiot 16 year old schoolboy that refuses to cut his hair to comply with school rules has also clearly learned nothing

[Robert Taylor]

Serious question Robert.
I'm happy to ride the NP and let you guys do the bizzo on my 09 Bandit, what sort of dollars am I looking at to make it suit me? without changing anything that doesn't absolutely ( You suggest it) need changing.
I know, variables mean it's hard, but a ball park figure.
Further if i could arrange for 2-4 riders to come down is a Saturday morning/day sufficient?

I will pm you an indicative cost independently. We dont open on Saturdays Im sorry as we are already away for so many part or full weekends in every year that we savour the very few that we get. Also it would mean convincing my 2IC Dennis to work on a Saturday ( at overtime rates that very much takes the edge off already slender margins) That he wouldnt be keen on. That on top of 12 hour weekdays would be lunacy. We can do on a Friday or a Monday ( for example ) and with 2 of us on deck could turn it round quickly

[Robert Taylor]

Out of interest Robert, would I get crosstalk in my VTR1k forks? I know they are old in design. Im very happy with them after the Gold Valves went in.

Interesting read.

We have electronic bicycle shocks that are terrain sensitive.

A little yes , but much less than with BPF forks that for any given distance of movement push approximately ten times more fluid than your 20mm cartridges. The etiquette with any forks or shock is always to be in the habit of adjusting rebound first. That of course doesnt in reality matter with totally idependent systems that dont cross talk. But the other factor is that over slow rebound is a big contributor to a harsh ride, so you first eliminate that as a contributor before messing with compression clickers ( if fitted )

[Robert Taylor]

Yip. It's why manufacturers will often only put rebound adjusters on forks and shocks I reckon.

Robert, how say you savage?

I shouldnt really respond as you already know and wont learn anything! ( You really are a prize cock at times! )

The first reason that only rebound adjusters may be fitted is COST, as is the second, as is the third and so on. Thats also why we are now burdened with BPF forks, they are cheaper to make

[Robert Taylor]

Robert will answer, but here's what I do.

I turn up at their workshop as early as possible, pull the forks out, hand them over to Denis, pull the shock out, hand it over Robert. Then I try and stay out of the way (not always successful though) while they do their stuff. Once they're finished I put the forks and shock back in the bike. When it's all back together they do a measure, set preload and rebound on both ends, after which I load up and disappear.

This saves me up to 5 hours of labour on the CBR (not the nicest in the world to get the rear shock out but not the worst either), without which labour alone would be about 7-8 hours.

So pulling the suspension yourself in their workshop means you save a whole bunch of money but they also do the initial setup on the bike. Once that's done you ride it and tweak the clickers until it's as close to spot on as possible.

Yes I can confirm that if the customer has the mechanical skill ( and sympathy ) to remove and refit his own suspension we will happily provide the tools etc thereby the clock wont be ticking for same. It suits the customer and his pocket and also suits us!

( Note that Gremlins example is an extreme one as he has the full blown electronic suspension with wiring looms etc )

[Drew]

I shouldnt really respond as you already know and wont learn anything! ( You really are a prize cock at times! )

The first reason that only rebound adjusters may be fitted is COST, as is the second, as is the third and so on. Thats also why we are now burdened with BPF forks, they are cheaper to make

I don't by any stretch, know much at all. That's why I used the format of a question.

[Robert Taylor]

Suffice to say that for those dealers in major centres that work with us they have the benefit of what we have and continue to learn and develop with our suspension dyno. Such dealers can either do some or all of the work or can facilitate / co-ordinate sending suspension units to us, then do the final setup. This will suit riders that dont have the time to be able to come to New Plymouth.

[Robert Taylor]

I don't by any stretch, know much at all. That's why I used the format of a question.

The article used the example of a GSXR600 BPF fork. But as these BPF systems are essentially generic through the 600s ( and a 750 ) in 37mm form and 39mm form for the bigger bore bikes they all have exactly the same characteristics, limitations and overall performance that is a little wanting. Especially in their inability to absorb abrupt bumps to a credible level.

[Kickaha]

I shouldnt really respond as you already know and wont learn anything! ( You really are a prize cock at times! )

That statement isn't accurate, he is a cock all the time

[Drew]

The outright lap record around Manfeild on a 600 is still held by Sketchy, running a stock Gixxer BPF front end.

Are they just poo on the road,

[nzspokes]

A little yes , but much less than with BPF forks that for any given distance of movement push approximately ten times more fluid than your 20mm cartridges. The etiquette with any forks or shock is always to be in the habit of adjusting rebound first. That of course doesnt in reality matter with totally idependent systems that dont cross talk. But the other factor is that over slow rebound is a big contributor to a harsh ride, so you first eliminate that as a contributor before messing with compression clickers ( if fitted )

So on my old bike its common to swap GSXR 750, CBR, RC51 forks on to them. Would I be right in saying that has limited improvement as the damper is not that much better? Obviously being upside down and bigger diameter its much stiffer. As we have spoken of before i am looking at a brace for the stock forks.

Would you consider the stock VTR forks to have a harsh rebound damper? Ive never ridden the fork stock as I fitted the gold valves to the compression side when I got the bike. Mine is a little harsh in the fork but again I believe that could be the seals as they are the All Balls ones.

On a side note would the BPF forks need more regular fluid changes?