Cunliffe's constituent Liu?

[Ocean1]

Your comment that the bottom and middle class have never had it better is a load of shit.

So how many cars did the average kiwi own a few decades ago? How many TVs? How many square metres of house did he live in? What percentage of his annual wage went to pay a square metre of that house? What percentage of his wage went to eduaction? Halthcare? How many iphones did he own? How many calories worth of food did he buy?

Bogun's already invited you to produce figures for historic income/metre housing and you haven't bothered. So as this is the third time you've displayed a singularly willfull ignorance in your refusal to coherently form your arguement you can get fucked.

Later. Not.

[Brian d marge]

So how many cars did the average kiwi own a few decades ago? How many TVs? How many square metres of house did he live in? What percentage of his annual wage went to pay a square metre of that house? What percentage of his wage went to eduaction? Halthcare? How many iphones did he own? How many calories worth of food did he buy?

Bogun's already invited you to produce figures for historic income/metre housing and you haven't bothered. So as this is the third time you've displayed a singularly willfull ignorance in your refusal to coherently form your arguement you can get fucked.

Later. Not.

Been there done that . . . . the shit was still cheaper

[Ocean1]

a first year house officer would earn $70,000 - $80,000 per annum from working 70 - 80 hours a week.

Oh I didn't notice that. Can't let that slide.

What's the total cost of training a doctor in NZ? (your DHB CEO will have the numbers if you’re not quite sure.)
What proportion of that does the trainee doctor pay?
And what does the difference represent if not a massive public investment in health professional training?

How many hrs per week does the RDA limit house doctors to?
And their remuneration over and above the cash wages is what?
Care to post a copy of your union’s current agreement for our collective entertainment?

Allow me to refresh your memory via this wee note solicited from your union’s UK equivalent: http://www.nzma.org.nz/sites/all/fil...%20in%20NZ.pdf

Want to discuss how hard done by you are because you only get (how many weeks a year is it?) paid sabbatical leave, (including international travel?)

Deborah has you guys well trained. Unfortunately neither she or you live in the same world as those who pay your under-the-table wages. Now go and see if you can actually generate some value in exchange for your extraordinarily complicated and convoluted remuneration schedule, instead of typing tripe ten to the dozen on Kiwibiker, and before some European or American immigrant notices that your pay and conditions are somewhat better than his.

[Ocean1]

Been there done that . . . . the shit was still cheaper

We have done that.

You didn't supply any numbers then either. Just spittle.

[Brian d marge]

We have done that.

You didn't supply any numbers then either. Just spittle.

Absolute crap
I even posted newspapers from the time

Same here ,some one has posted many links to support arqument

You . . . . . . well i didnt see much evidence

Just spittle

Stephen

[Brian d marge]

Sorry one link was posted

[mada]

So how many cars did the average kiwi own a few decades ago? How many TVs? How many square metres of house did he live in? What percentage of his annual wage went to pay a square metre of that house? What percentage of his wage went to eduaction? Halthcare? How many iphones did he own? How many calories worth of food did he buy?

Bogun's already invited you to produce figures for historic income/metre housing and you haven't bothered. So as this is the third time you've displayed a singularly willfull ignorance in your refusal to coherently form your arguement you can get fucked.

Later. Not.

House buyers
Ten years after the surge in house prices began, national measures of house price-to-disposable income ratios remain elevated and would require sharp falls in house prices to return to long-term averages (Figure 0.3). Affordability measures that include financing costs are currently closer to longer-term averages, owing to interest rates that are low compared with earlier times (Figure 0.4). This is often over-looked.

During the last house price boom, housing affordability became a constraint for some middle-income groups, whereas it had previously mainly been an issue for those on lower incomes. It is not yet clear if this is a cyclical phenomenon or a structural trend.

Renters

During the house price boom, rents increased at around the same rate as generalised inflation. Across territorial authorities, rents grew in a relatively tight range of 2.3% per year (in Dunedin City) to 8.2% per year (in Buller District). In all cases, rent increases were significantly less than real house price inflation and the ratio of house prices to rents increased markedly, a departure from the long-term broadly stable relationship.

This apparently benign aggregate situation disguises a more difficult position for renters on lower incomes. In particular, people in the lowest two income quintiles spend a much higher proportion of their income on rent than people on higher incomes (Figure 0.5). Even though the situation appears to have improved since the late 1990s, those in the two lower income quintiles still spend, on average, more than 30% of their disposable income on rent, after allowing for government assistance.

Anyway couldn't care fucking less about what you think. If you find things so shit from a slight tax increase or the supposedly high income tax we have in NZ (which is a load fucking shit) feel free to piss off to your dreamland in America.

[mada]

Oh I didn't notice that. Can't let that slide.

What's the total cost of training a doctor in NZ? (your DHB CEO will have the numbers if you’re not quite sure.)
What proportion of that does the trainee doctor pay?
And what does the difference represent if not a massive public investment in health professional training?

How many hrs per week does the RDA limit house doctors to?
And their remuneration over and above the cash wages is what?
Care to post a copy of your union’s current agreement for our collective entertainment?

Allow me to refresh your memory via this wee note solicited from your union’s UK equivalent: http://www.nzma.org.nz/sites/all/fil...%20in%20NZ.pdf

Want to discuss how hard done by you are because you only get (how many weeks a year is it?) paid sabbatical leave, (including international travel?)

Deborah has you guys well trained. Unfortunately neither she or you live in the same world as those who pay your under-the-table wages. Now go and see if you can actually generate some value in exchange for your extraordinarily complicated and convoluted remuneration schedule, instead of typing tripe ten to the dozen on Kiwibiker, and before some European or American immigrant notices that your pay and conditions are somewhat better than his.

Crack up....

That's how much you value high paid productive members of society who work long hours. I guess its the envious lefty in you.

Look forward to seeing you bitch about doctors not doing anything productive....

[Ocean1]

Sorry one link was posted

I must have missed the posted reference to historic hrs worked on average income per square metre of house.

And how many bedrooms they averaged, dishwashers, how much carpet, how many bathrooms, en suites, heat exchangers, double glazed windows, garaging for how many cars...

I think you'll find the basic answer is that prices have doubled. Along with house sizes. All of the extras are comparatively free.

[bogan]

I must have missed the posted reference to historic hrs worked on average income per square metre of house.

Well there has yet to be a historic income percentage even posted from more than 10 years ago, so nah, don't think you've missed much.

I wonder if people are just buying other expensive things, like cars, has car ownership gone up or down in the last 50 years?

[Brian d marge]

I must have missed the posted reference to historic hrs worked on average income per square metre of house.

And how many bedrooms they averaged, dishwashers, how much carpet, how many bathrooms, en suites, heat exchangers, double glazed windows, garaging for how many cars...

I think you'll find the basic answer is that prices have doubled. Along with house sizes. All of the extras are comparatively free.

Been thinking about this and it aint that simple

[Ocean1]

Been thinking about this and it aint that simple

Sure it is. By any reasonable metric you use the vast majority of people on this planet have never had it so good.

It don't sell well. It ain't fashionable. It's of no use whatsoever to the grievance industry. And the radical left hate it to pieces.

But it's true.

Enjoy:

http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/20...7_chapter1.pdf

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog...;s-digest.aspx

[mashman]

Sure it is. By any reasonable metric you use the vast majority of people on this planet have never had it so good.

It don't sell well. It ain't fashionable. It's of no use whatsoever to the grievance industry. And the radical left hate it to pieces.

But it's true.

Enjoy:

http://www.heritage.org/index/pdf/20...7_chapter1.pdf

http://www.rationaloptimist.com/blog...;s-digest.aspx

I don't see the number of deaths dropping.

[Ocean1]

I don't see the number of deaths dropping.

Why would you expect to?

Is this what you were looking for?: "Compared with 50 years ago, when I was just four years old, the average human now earns nearly three times as much money (corrected for inflation), eats one third more calories, buries two thirds fewer children, and can expect to live one third longer. In fact, it's hard to find any region of the world that's worse off now than it was then, even though the global population has more than doubled over that period."

Again: Only a fool would contend that every sector of humanity on the planet isn't better off now than they were a generation ago. And the cause of that improvement is mass production and global trade.

Why on earth would you fuck with that other than to protect it's freedom of expression?

[mada]

Well there has yet to be a historic income percentage even posted from more than 10 years ago, so nah, don't think you've missed much.

I wonder if people are just buying other expensive things, like cars, has car ownership gone up or down in the last 50 years?

It's pretty hard to use google eh?

It's okay, even if I provide the data you and Ocean will complain that it does not examine the ratio of income spent per mm of grogen left in the shitter.

"In 2009, 27 percent of New Zealand households spent more than 30 percent of their disposable income on housing costs. This was around the same level as in 2007 (26 percent) but an increase on the 2004 level (21 percent). Since the late-1980s, there has been a substantial increase in the proportion of households spending more than 30 percent of their income on housing. Between 1988 and 1997, the proportion rose from 11 percent to 25 percent of households, before levelling off at 24 percent in 1998 and 2001, and falling to 21 percent in 2004."

High housing costs relative to household incomes are of more concern for low-income households. The proportion of households in the lowest 20 percent (lowest quintile) of the equivalised household income distribution spending more than 30 percent of their income on housing trebled between 1988 and 1994, rising from 16 percent to a peak of 48 percent. The rate levelled off at 41–42 percent over the period 1996–2001, fell to 34 percent in 2004 and remained close to that level in 2007 and 2009 (33 percent). The proportion of low-income households spending more than 30 percent of their income on housing was twice as high in 2009 as it was in 1988.
Age and sex differences

In 2009, 37 percent of children aged under 18 years lived in households with housing costs exceeding 30 percent of household disposable income, an increase from 32 percent in 2007.

http://socialreport.msd.govt.nz/econ...rdability.html


Easy to spout off the same rhetoric with no evidence that "people just need to work longer hours and earn more" - cos money and work just falls off trees - will improve GDP.

People must be just working less and be lazier - that explains the general trend across all Western countries for lower rates of home ownership.