Diesel vs petrol vehicles

**gjm** · 6th July 2014, 15:16

Break even comes pretty quickly... 7L/100km diesel vs 8L/100km petrol and by 11000 you're on parity. After that, running the diesel gets cheaper.

It doesn't feel like that. Fill up your diesel vehicle with 60L tank, and it'll cost $80-90. Factor in $00s for RUC, extra rego and it seems expensive.
Compare that with filling a petrol-engined car with a 60L tank and it's cost over $120, and it doesn't seem quite so bad.

However - this is perception. The spreadsheet speaks the truth.

**vifferman** · 6th July 2014, 16:16

I didn't bother reading your spreadsheet / comparison, but recently I did a similar thing with my car (2010 VW Passat R-Line, TDI). I wanted an R36, but for two reasons didn't get one: none were for sale at the time, and (AFAIK) they stopped making them in 2008. The cars are very similar, with the R36 having a couple of extra features to justify the premium price, and a 3.6litre V6, vs. the 1968cc TDI on the R-Line. Both produce 350mutant-eaters of torques (with the R-Line having it from 1500rpm to just over 4k), but the R-Line has only 125kw vs. the R36's 221kw. Weight's similar, with the R36's AWD adding a little to the rear end.
The big difference is fuel economy, with the R-Line easily managing 900km / tank without effort, or 1300km if I throw in some highway cruising.
So, I worked it out, that with the 5c/km RUCs, the TDi's frugality is entirely negated, and the running cost's about the same. Iffen I'd known that before hand, and iffen the R36 wasn't discontinued, I would've been better off with one, solely for the hoon factor and auditory bonus.

The Gubmint really are stupidcoontz, y'know. They try to make a feeble attempt at appearing to be environmentally conscious on the one hand, yet by pinging owners of frugal modern TDI vehicles by making them pay the same RUCs as trucks and fume-belching 4WD behemoths, they're costing the country dearly in terms of fuel imports. There self-confessed aim in putting RUCs up was to make the tax take the same as less-efficient petrol vehicles pay at the pump.

We drove a Peugeot 308 1.6 TDI in Yurp, and I thought, "This thing's going to be a dog!", but it wasn't! It would be the ideal car for NooZilund, with heaps of torque for our uppy-downy terrain, used hardly any fuel, and yet it makes no sense here as things are, because even though you'd save a heap on fuel, be able to tour without worrying where the next gas station was, and be doing the environment a favour, it would be not much cheaper to run due to Gubmint penalties.

**jasonu** · 6th July 2014, 16:40

Originally Posted by gjm

Break even comes pretty quickly... 7L/100km diesel vs 8L/100km petrol and by 11000 you're on parity. After that, running the diesel gets cheaper.

It doesn't feel like that. Fill up your diesel vehicle with 60L tank, and it'll cost $80-90. Factor in $00s for RUC, extra rego and it seems expensive.
Compare that with filling a petrol-engined car with a 60L tank and it's cost over $120, and it doesn't seem quite so bad.

However - this is perception. The spreadsheet speaks the truth.

What about periodic maintenance? Diesels cost 3 times as much to service (oil change, filters etc) than similar petrol vehicles and if you don't properly maintain your diesel it will bite you in the arse dollars wise.

**gjm** · 6th July 2014, 17:01

Originally Posted by jasonu

What about periodic maintenance? Diesels cost 3 times as much to service (oil change, filters etc) than similar petrol vehicles and if you don't properly maintain your diesel it will bite you in the arse dollars wise.

It's true that a diesel should have it's oil changed more often, even if BMW reckon our 320d should go 20000km between changes. Long life spec oil goes a ways to helping, but I still won't run anything like that long. I change the oil every 5-6000 miles (8-9000km; it's UK import with everything in miles).

But I'd change the oil in a petrol car at that interval, too, so no saving there.

Glow plugs? Maybe... Except it very rarely gets cold enough where we live to make that an issue. OK, so there are other diesel-specific things, but I don't think they really are that much more expensive to look after.

Petrol car - spark plugs? Now there's a ridiculously expensive item in NZ! Repco or SCA want $30 per plug for something to fit an older VW Polo. (We have one of those, too, at the moment.) That is - literally - 10 times as much as they cost in the UK. OK, economies of scale apply, and the car is much more common in Europe, but it is cheaper to plan ahead, order them in Britain and have them posted here. Same goes for oil filters, air filters... Grrr...

Air filter - equivalent of $7 in the UK. Again, 10 times as much here. Oil filters are the same. (I'm comparing high street vendors here, not mail order specialists.)

Besides, most petrol cars (that provide anything approaching an interesting drive) won't use 8L per 100km. They'll use 10, or more. My situation is a little different to many and I'm driving 50000km or so per year, so diesel saves me nearly $3000 (in fuel, RUC, and rego) per year.

At higher mileages, diesels make sense. Around town perhaps, and for less travelling, petrol may well be a better bet. It's easier to justify with utes and the like.

Disconnecting speedo cables is another story. Not sure I even can on the BMW!

**SMOKEU** · 6th July 2014, 18:23

Originally Posted by ellipsis

...?....

........

Originally Posted by Flip

Just like their motorcycles.

The Japanese make great petrol engines, but not diesels. There's a reason why more and more Japanese vehicles use European diesels.

**husaberg** · 6th July 2014, 19:27

Originally Posted by gjm

Break even comes pretty quickly... 7L/100km diesel vs 8L/100km petrol and by 11000 you're on parity. After that, running the diesel gets cheaper.

It doesn't feel like that. Fill up your diesel vehicle with 60L tank, and it'll cost $80-90. Factor in $00s for RUC, extra rego and it seems expensive.
Compare that with filling a petrol-engined car with a 60L tank and it's cost over $120, and it doesn't seem quite so bad.

However - this is perception. The spreadsheet speaks the truth.

Thing is mine was $10000 cheaper the interest on that buys a fair bit of petrol.
Being a 4 liter petrol it should have lasted 4 ever.......

**Gremlin** · 6th July 2014, 21:17

Originally Posted by Akzle

ever get that feeling you have too much free time?
Get a fuken elf or dyna or someshit.

No and no... Actually don't have much free time, but flexing some excel always has it's rewards.

Originally Posted by Grumph

But for me, ease of disconnection of the speedo is pretty important too - cable drive or electric.

Yeup, except as a buyer, this is exactly what worries me...

Originally Posted by Voltaire

They should ditch rego and just put the whole lot on fuel, If your using your vehicle you pay, if your not you don't.

Completely agree, and people have mentioned this multiple times for multiple reasons, including owning multiple vehicles.

Originally Posted by vifferman

I didn't bother reading your spreadsheet / comparison,

Throw in your own gas/diesel price and consumption figure and it will do the maths on the options available... easy as that really.

I still do most of my mileage on bikes, I think I did about 6k in the ute last year... actually pretty good considering I only drive it on some weekends.

**caspernz** · 6th July 2014, 21:37

Meh, the comparison between diesel vs petrol is largely academic. If you're doing enough clicks, the diesel will win. But how many privately owned vehicles run those big clicks? Getting into company car territory pretty quick then, or at least into the space of someone with a vehicle allowance.

The amusing thing for me personally is that since I got a little Hyundai Getz as a work runabout, the bike now uses more fuel than my work hack

and let's not even talk about the tyre cost disparity

. Me thinks I don't want to put those sorts of entries into an Excel spreadsheet

**FJRider** · 6th July 2014, 21:47

Originally Posted by caspernz

... Me thinks I don't want to put those sorts of entries into an Excel spreadsheet

Many STILL believe running costs ARE fuel costs ...

**Gremlin** · 6th July 2014, 21:49

My boss had a Ford Fiesta diesel top of the line thing, that could manage 3-4L/100km when trotting down the motorway.

Then he got bored with the lack of power from it, plus the RUC on such a tiny car, so he got a high performance Mazda MPS hatch thing. Then it cost lots to run and now has that new shape Prius V... he's a curious one

**caspernz** · 6th July 2014, 21:50

Originally Posted by FJRider

Many STILL believe running costs ARE fuel costs ...

Haha, yeah and they're either called Richard Cranium or blonde is their natural hair colour

**FJRider** · 6th July 2014, 21:59

Originally Posted by caspernz

Haha, yeah and they're either called Richard Cranium or blonde is their natural hair colour

There are many motorcyclists commuting on their bike (for economy reasons) ... when a small car would more effective/practical/economical ...

**ellipsis** · 6th July 2014, 22:28

Originally Posted by SMOKEU

The Japanese make great petrol engines, but not diesels. There's a reason why more and more Japanese vehicles use European diesels.

...are you for fucking real?...what would make you want to state such a fucking ridiculous thing...experience or did someone tell you?...

**Big Dog** · 6th July 2014, 22:46

Originally Posted by FJRider

There are many motorcyclists commuting on their bike (for economy reasons) ... when a small car would more effective/practical/economical ...

Don't I know it. If I could afford a shoe box as a third registered vehicle any cost benefit would be gone. Even on the DR.
I commute by motorcycle because it is the best alternative I could live with. Without brushing my teeth with a Winchester.

I don't fancy an extra hour each way. I don't fancy spending that hour in traffic that feels like your in a busy car park circling looking for a park with 10,000 others.
Sometimes I do wish I had a cup holder, nice stereo, air con etc.

But then I get to the open road sections.
Sometimes I wish I lived further from Auckland, but even when my gloves are collecting mud, water is running into my boot and the crosswind is having it on, I climb out of the Bombays and smell the air and all is right with the world.

Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.