Nicky Hager

[Oscar]

Classic, you think whaleoil is great. Everyone else who challenges what he does as unpleasant or scum.

I think Whaleoil is a nasty piece of shit actually.
But please, continue making up my opinions to suit yourself.

[Woodman]

No, it's using a hypothetical example to express a concept.

And the fact is that you're only aggrieved by the discussion because you're a National party supporter.

If it was Labour that was being exposed by a similar investigation you'd be all over it like a rash.

Not aggrieved at all. Try amused.

[Katman]

I think Whaleoil is a nasty piece of shit actually.

Me too.

So it makes me wonder about the sort of person who would form a close working relationship with him.

[Banditbandit]

You're right, what we seem to be discussing here is the integrity and morality of Nicky Hager.

The fact is though that the morality of Nicky Hager (and for that matter, the morality of Cameron Slater) is of little importance.

What matters is the morality and integrity of the government who formulate policy on our behalf.

Yes. Attacking Nicky Hagar is an avoidance strategy.

The basic question the book raises is: Do we want a Government that resorts to these sorts of tactics to get it's way, to stifle opponents, to reward mates and to get re-elected?

And don't tell me "they all do it' . If that's the case, then I want NONE of them in Government.

[yokel]

Not aggrieved at all. Try amused.

Male or female? I'm not sure?

[yokel]

Yes. Attacking Nicky Hagar is an avoidance strategy.

The basic question the book raises is: Do we want a Government that resorts to these sorts of tactics to get it's way, to stifle opponents, to reward mates and to get re-elected?

And don't tell me "they all do it' . If that's the case, then I want NONE of them in Government.

Yip, they all do it.
that's why I'm voting for no cunt

[Oscar]

Yip, they all do it.
that's why I'm voting for no cunt

Is he the Chinese candidate?

[yokel]

Is he the Chinese candidate?

Ha, I see what you did there.
Hey if I see "no cunt" on the party list then that will be getting my vote

[SPman]

Yes. Attacking Nicky Hagar is an avoidance strategy.

The basic question the book raises is: Do we want a Government that resorts to these sorts of tactics to get it's way, to stifle opponents, to reward mates and to get re-elected?

And don't tell me "they all do it' . If that's the case, then I want NONE of them in Government.

Of course, they don't "all do it", but, unfortunately, a section of them do do it, and to them, seems to have accreted the power and decision making in this (and other) countries!There are politicians on all sides of the spectrum, who docare about the place and would be appalled at this sort of behaviour....a pity they don't speak up a bit louder when they see it!

The only way to get rid of this toxic crap, is to investigate it, expose it, root it out. This is where investigative journalists are so important, and, like him or not, Hager is a brilliant, dogged, investigative journalist, easily of the calibre of people like Seymour Hersch, Greg Palast, etc.

To do this though, you do need a populace who are, at least to a moderate degree, politically and morally aware - this sort of sludge can only thrive and grow in an atmosphere of intimidation and secrecy (any wonder that as governments get more authoritarian, they get more secretive....)

To quote Thomas Jefferson

- Whenever a man has cast a longing eye on offices, a rottenness begins in his conduct.

- Educate and inform the whole mass of the people... They are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty.

- If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

[Woodman]

!There are politicians on all sides of the spectrum, who docare about the place and would be appalled at this sort of behaviour....[/I]

Just because they are a bit sneaky and use some questionable tactics, doesn't mean they don't give a fuck about the country.

Nicky Hager used questionable tactics to expose it, so by your reckoning, does he give a fuck ?or not give a fuck?

[yokel]

"what's good for the goose is good for the gander" I say

the blue team supporters are just shitting themselves that the red and green machine is getting some traction.
It's almost enough for me to vote just to keep loopy left out, but nah fuck the lot of them.

[Ocean1]

This is where investigative journalists are so important, and, like him or not, Hager is a brilliant, dogged, investigative journalist, easily of the calibre of people like Seymour Hersch, Greg Palast, etc.

So, you can dislike the targets of Hager's largely unverified smear campaign, and yet in publishing it the man himself is a journalist of calibre?

Hypocritical innit? Just slightly?

And for the record, Hager isn't a journalist, history shows him to be a radical socialist activist. I can see you're well taken with his every utterance, but that doesn't make him worth the shit off the heel of a proper trained, impartial journalist.

Whereas his political history and habit of publishing exclusively shit that just happens to fit his own political ends would tend to indicate pretty much anything he has to say should be regarded with suspicion at least, if not outright derision.

Really, dude, with such lopsided drivel you're approaching the same level of fiction. At least Hager makes it pay, what's your excuse?

[pritch]

Whaleoil is a nasty piece of shit.

And so say all of us.

Key is claiming that the current goings-on are a left wing smear campaign. Actually, it's a right wing smear campaign which blew up in his face. The plotters: Slater, Lusk, Collins, Ede, etc were all National Party. Karma can be a bitch.

Key describes Hager as left wing. I bet Helen Clarke didn't think Hager was left wing when he derailed Labour's election campaign with his book "Seeds of Discontent".
Hager could probably be fairly described as an investigative journalist, but we have had so few of those for so long now we may not recognise one when we see it.
Those who like to denigrate Hager might consider why, if what he prints is untrue, he has never been successfully sued. The fact is that, like him or not, he has been consistently on the money.

To his credit Hager was in possession of a lot of personal/family information about the people mentioned in his book. He did not use that.

National's plan to run a presidential style campaign relying heavily on Key could yet come unstuck. Be interesting to see what Glenn Greenwald is bringing with him from the USA. It's a long way to come with bugger all.

If I seem to be taking undue pleasure from the plight of National it isn't because I like Labour. I dislike them all, they piss me off continually for three years, at election time I get to watch some of them being pissed off. Pardon me if I enjoy it.

[yokel]

So, you can dislike the targets of Hager's largely unverified smear campaign, and yet in publishing it the man himself is a journalist of calibre?

Hypocritical innit? Just slightly?

And for the record, Hager isn't a journalist, history shows him to be a radical socialist activist. I can see you're well taken with his every utterance, but that doesn't make him worth the shit off the heel of a proper trained, impartial journalist.

Whereas his political history and habit of publishing exclusively shit that just happens to fit his own political ends would tend to indicate pretty much anything he has to say should be regarded with suspicion at least, if not outright derision.

Really, dude, with such lopsided drivel you're approaching the same level of fiction. At least Hager makes it pay, what's your excuse?

Think I'll agree with you on that one Ocean1, Hager is a dirty rat like the rest of them.
the timing of the release of the book and labours lead up to when the book was released leaves a bit to be desired.

I was thinking before all this shit was "vote positive? is labour trying to loose this election?"

[Ocean1]

Key describes Hager as left wing. I bet Helen Clarke didn't think Hager was left wing when he derailed Labour's election campaign with his book "Seeds of Discontent".

I think Labour and National are indistinguishable from as far left as Hager is.

A radical green apprenticeship tends to do that.