Elections are coming up. What are we thinking?

[SPman]

So....less tax....more money in the individuals pocket but......who pays for the hospitals, schools, police, defense forces, energy supplies....... infrastructure that keeps the country a viable, functioning proposition as opposed to a neanderthal subsistence society. (unfair on Neanderthals, who, apparently, had a very coherent society on a small scale, but....)
Everyone is quite happy to use all this, indeed, expect it as of right and a given to their normal everyday living, but no one seems to want to pay for any of it........

[MisterD]

Everyone is quite happy to use all this, indeed, expect it as of right and a given to their normal everyday living, but no one seems to want to pay for any of it........

Speak for yourself. I'm quite happy to pay for what I use and stop subsidising what other people think is important.

Little known fact - Right leaning people give more to charity than others...

[mashman]

So....less tax....more money in the individuals pocket but......who pays for the hospitals, schools, police, defense forces, energy supplies....... infrastructure that keeps the country a viable, functioning proposition as opposed to a neanderthal subsistence society. (unfair on Neanderthals, who, apparently, had a very coherent society on a small scale, but....)
Everyone is quite happy to use all this, indeed, expect it as of right and a given to their normal everyday living, but no one seems to want to pay for any of it........

Fear and jealousy smeared in entitlement complex. They do not deserve because I decide that they do not deserve. Pathetic wankers.

[mashman]

Little known fact - Right leaning people give more to charity than others...

You mean right leaning people perpetuate the status quo and misery of those by far less fortunate than themselves in order to bolster their fragile ego's and crow how generous they are. Myopic at best.

The Charitable Industrial Complex

[MisterD]

You mean right leaning people perpetuate the status quo and misery of those by far less fortunate than themselves in order to bolster their fragile ego's and crow how generous they are. Myopic at best.

No, I mean left leaning types crow about how generous and altruistic they are because they vote for politicians to give other peoples' money to those less fortunate.

Politicians who have a vested interest in keeping that dependent block voting for continued handouts.

[gjm]

So....less tax....more money in the individuals pocket but......who pays for the hospitals, schools, police, defense forces, energy supplies....... infrastructure that keeps the country a viable, functioning proposition as opposed to a neanderthal subsistence society. (unfair on Neanderthals, who, apparently, had a very coherent society on a small scale, but....)
Everyone is quite happy to use all this, indeed, expect it as of right and a given to their normal everyday living, but no one seems to want to pay for any of it........

That is why National borrowed $450m a week after they got in last time. The three year-on-year tax cuts they promised were untenable before the election, but they went ahead with two of them anyway, plunging the country into massive debt; that debt currently sits at around $15000 for every single person living here. (I wonder how that figure compares to other countries?)

The measure of financial stability is the ability to repay a debt. That's often judged by the GDP:debt ratio.

Here's GDP:



And this is what National refer to when they say their policies are working.

Total NZ debt to end of 2012 is shown here:



This is a little unfair as the 3rd quarter of 2011 saw the highest actual debt in New Zealand history, and it has come down since then, even if only by a (comparatively) tiny amount.

Regardless, GDP has almost doubled, but debt has increased by at least 2.5x. That doesn't sound like an economic step forward, or an example of good fiscal policy. (But I'm not an economist.)

Internationally, NZ is asset-weak, and actually worse in this regard than Greece. This is shown by a high leverage ratio (a ratio of external liabilities - including debt - to external assets). Worldwide, we're not as bad off as Poland, Turkey, the Soviet Union and.... That's about it.



However, and back to the 'who will you vote for?' topic, life to most of us is not about international economics. It is about quality, safety and happiness. If people are happy under National (and National are telling them that they are) then they will likely vote National. Actually, this has changed somewhat and National are now saying that you'd be more unhappy with another party holding power, which really isn't the same thing at all.

[buggerit]

Speak for yourself. I'm quite happy to pay for what I use and stop subsidising what other people think is important.

Little known fact - Right leaning people give more to charity than others...

Interesting- have you got any hard facts and figures u can share?

[MisterD]

Interesting- have you got any hard facts and figures u can share?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...21kristof.html

A wee bit dated, but I'm sure the cited sources could be updated if you wanted to.

[Banditbandit]

Little known fact - Right leaning people give more to charity than others...

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/21/op...21kristof.html

A wee bit dated, but I'm sure the cited sources could be updated if you wanted to.

I wonder what the comparative figure for volunteering for charity work is .. I suspect that right wing leaners GIVE more to charity and left leaners DO more for charity...

[oldrider]

I wonder what the comparative figure for volunteering for charity work is .. I suspect that right wing leaners GIVE more to charity and left leaners DO more for charity...

I suspect that you are correct in your assumption ... people give what comes easiest to them! Don't think left or right even comes into it!

[oldrider]

That is why National borrowed $450m a week after they got in last time. The three year-on-year tax cuts they promised were untenable before the election, but they went ahead with two of them anyway, plunging the country into massive debt; that debt currently sits at around $15000 for every single person living here. (I wonder how that figure compares to other countries?)

The measure of financial stability is the ability to repay a debt. That's often judged by the GDP:debt ratio.

Here's GDP:

Now put up the comparitive Gross national income for the same period and you will see the difference is the amount of new money created as a debt for that period!

[Banditbandit]

You mean this??? Pretty static really, but overall trending down




It's the Resevere Bank's own figures ...

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/real_gdp/

What is interesting is the drop in GDP following the election of National-led as the Government in 1990 ...

The upswing following the election of Labour in 1999 ... (followed by a slower decline ... and then a couple of wild swings ..)

The major drop in 08.09 under a national Government ...

The real highs have been under a Labour led Government and the real lows under National .. What was that about "working for New Zealand" ???

[mashman]

No, I mean left leaning types crow about how generous and altruistic they are because they vote for politicians to give other peoples' money to those less fortunate.

Politicians who have a vested interest in keeping that dependent block voting for continued handouts.

To start with, it's not your money. You do remember Cyprus right? You have heard of the OBR haven't you? That aside. That, other people's money, is also the left wings to do with as they choose, but that's only cheap if you share those costs across the working population, so we're either all in or all out. If we're all out, how do you think society will react?

It keeps them in a job and gives you something to vote for. Rather that than an all out free for all though, coz that won't end well.

[mashman]

You mean this??? Pretty static really, but overall trending down




It's the Resevere Bank's own figures ...

http://www.rbnz.govt.nz/statistics/key_graphs/real_gdp/

What is interesting is the drop in GDP following the election of National-led as the Government in 1990 ...

The upswing following the election of Labour in 1999 ... (followed by a slower decline ... and then a couple of wild swings ..)

The major drop in 08.09 under a national Government ...

The real highs have been under a Labour led Government and the real lows under National .. What was that about "working for New Zealand" ???

The right get the money at low interest rates and borrow for the left to spend when times are good

[MisterD]

You mean this??? Pretty static really, but overall trending down

Erm...that's % change against time, so mostly above the line is GDP mostly increasing.

(Notwithstanding that GDP is a bollocks measure, including as it does, government spending.)