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Thread: Nicky Hager

  1. #406
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    Quote Originally Posted by angle View Post
    Life does not need to be this difficult. It is also beneficial for the entire society when the majority of its members do productive work that they enjoy.
    For the vast majority it isn't, but sometimes shit happens or your aspirations change. Perhaps people just need a paradigm change and just be happy with the life and career they were given by the circumstances they were born into. Or you do the things you don't like to do to get the things that you really want.

    Some people enjoy the training and the challenge of the fight. Some want the medal placed round their neck for turning up and not breaking sweat.
    Legalise anarchy

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluninja View Post
    For the vast majority it isn't
    Oh... so you've asked everyone then?
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  3. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by mashman View Post
    Oh... so you've asked everyone then?
    Of course, he's my best mate. BTW it's spelt Every Juan
    Legalise anarchy

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    Quote Originally Posted by bluninja View Post
    Of course, he's my best mate. BTW it's spelt Every Juan
    No. No. Nooooooooooooooooooooooo.
    I didn't think!!! I experimented!!!

  5. #410
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    Chris Trotter (who I often don't agree with, but.....) sort of sums up the attitude to NH here

    Ever since the publication of Hager’s second book, Secrets and Lies: The Anatomy of an Anti-Environmental PR Campaign, he has been the sworn enemy of the powerful public relations firms which play such an important role in rendering the most distasteful government and/or corporate policies more or less palatable to the general public. The representatives of these firms – like the man who appeared on television the night Dirty Politics was released, telling New Zealand there was “nothing in it” – have never lost an opportunity either in public, or behind the scenes, to attack both Hager’s credibility and his character.

    I well remember crossing swords with a young journalist in the Green Room at TVNZ after she blithely dismissed Hager as an inveterate conspiracy theorist and looney lefty.
    I asked her if she had read any of his books. She Hadn’t.
    I asked her if she was aware he had won international prizes for investigative journalism. She wasn’t.
    It hadn’t stopped her from casually defaming him, however.
    It never does.
    When John Key dismissed Dirty Politics as the work of “a screaming left-wing conspiracy theorist”, he knew there would be many thousands of Kiwis who would accept his characterisation without experiencing the slightest pang of doubt.
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by SPman View Post
    Chris Trotter (who I often don't agree with, but.....) sort of sums up the attitude to NH here
    So what's this US Investigative Journalism award then? All I can find is a reference on his own page to an award in 1996. Perhaps my Google searching skills aren't too good. Or maybe the award(singular, can't even find a mention of awards from Nicky Hager himself) isn't all it's cracked up to be when exposed to scrutiny.

    An interesting view from another "journalist" sums up things for me. Be clear this does not mean I believe or disbelieve Hager.
    Dirty Politics is not journalism.

    As a journalist, the most basic principle we must uphold is that of fairness. That is not to say that what we write or broadcast is always fair, but that whomever we are challenging on an issue is given the opportunity to respond. Some choose not to comment. But they are at least given that choice.

    Hager did not corroborate a single accusation in his book. He did not seek comment on the accusations. He did not give his targets a chance to defend themselves, provide context or refute his allegations. Had he, he knew the courts would have likely granted an injunction and the book would not have been published.
    Legalise anarchy

  7. #412
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    Priorities are all wrong here!

    In this Hager case the "authortities" should be focussing their efforts on "THE CRIME" irrispective of the "GRIME" which is/was stolen private material!

  8. #413
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The value of a human being is NOT the value of the goods they produce ...
    Of course not.

    But we're talking economic value, and the value of the goods he produces is set by those he's selling them to, nobody else.

    Quote Originally Posted by Banditbandit View Post
    The basic issue for me is that there is a differentiated labour scale that values some forms of labour over other forms of labour - that's bullshit - labour is labour - "from each according to his abilities and to each according to his needs" (with apologies for the sexist language which is a) old and b) Not mine ... )
    Then you should buy your shit only from suppliers that you're happy pay their employees according to your ideology. But don't expect many others to work twice as hard in order to be able to afford to do so.

    In the meantime let your fairy story die with it's author, it's not something that actually represents a viable, fair or even altruistic objective.

    I mean, really, if you had a situation where each actually did provide according to his ability then he wouldn't have needs to be met by someone else, would he? It's a nonsense excuse for a perfectly human adolescent tendency to expect someone else to provide, and the solution is as it always has been: Grow up.
    Go soothingly on the grease mud, as there lurks the skid demon

  9. #414
    Never read this thread, not interested. However, last night I was in Hamilton Library browsing at 10.45pm (love my Kobo) and came across Dirty Politics, and got it out. (and Muldoon's biography). It doesn't look anyone on this thread has read the book. The Kobo says I'm only 20% into it, but very interesting reading so far. Scary how the public can be manipulated.
    In and out of jobs, running free
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  10. #415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu View Post
    Never read this thread, not interested. However,
    ...after very speedily zipping through the last couple of pages I come to the conclusion that you all need fucking...some gently, some violently... whether you like it or not is entirely up to the individual...whatever you leak...later...

  11. #416
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    Nicky Hager is part of the same conspiracy that his book is about, they are all self serving in their objectives!

  12. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ocean1 View Post
    Of course not.

    But we're talking economic value, and the value of the goods he produces is set by those he's selling them to, nobody else.
    I don't quite agree. A worker, employed by someone else, is not selling anything except the labour ... (and yes, employment contracts put a price on that labour) and I would make a distinction between the price of the goods and the value of the goods - as you say - value is set by the purchaser .. and if the purchaser is not prepared to pay the asking price then they don't buy ...

    The owners of the goods (the factory owner for instance, not the worker) sets the price based on cost + profit ... that could bee seen as the price of the goods ... which may well b separate from the value assigned by a potential purchaser ..


    Then you should buy your shit only from suppliers that you're happy pay their employees according to your ideology. But don't expect many others to work twice as hard in order to be able to afford to do so.
    No. Nice idea - but in the modern world barely possible - though I do try to purchase from ethical employers .. but who the fuck really knows ..

    In the meantime let your fairy story die with it's author, it's not something that actually represents a viable, fair or even altruistic objective.

    I mean, really, if you had a situation where each actually did provide according to his ability then he wouldn't have needs to be met by someone else, would he? It's a nonsense excuse for a perfectly human adolescent tendency to expect someone else to provide, and the solution is as it always has been: Grow up.
    Well yes - which is why anarchy remains a philosophical ideal and utopian aspirational aim ... but most real anarchists I know agree that the utopian dream will never be possible in the foreseeable future ... I do see it as providing a fairer society ...

    And no, it is not an expectation that someone else will provide - it is an expectation that work is rewarded ... it is not an expectation that someone else will provide .. Within this politico-social philosophy "from each according to their abilities" goes hand in hand with "to each according to their needs" ... but work is rewarded at the same level - why should a street cleaner get paid less than an academic? (The medieval plagues of Europe prove that street cleaners are important - without them our urban environments would be fatally unhealthy - but without academics people can still be fed .. yes I know I'm an academic ... a pragmatic one)

    Non-workers get subsistance only - bread, water and cracked wheat cereal ... dormitory housing and communal washing ... shorts and t-shirts .. If a person doesn't contribute why should the expect to get anything apart from survival needs? (And I could be persuaded to even drop that - give nothing then get nothing ...)
    "So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."

  13. #418
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu View Post
    .... It doesn't look anyone on this thread has read the book. The Kobo says I'm only 20% into it, but very interesting reading so far. Scary how the public can be manipulated.
    The public have always been manipulated - it's just that everyone is just more blatant and seedier about it. and due to better?..more instant communications, more people know about the shit that goes on......unfortunately, not enough people it seems. PR firms have got a lot to answer for......
    'Tis interesting reading - even when you know what's coming up......(the Kindle version was out a couple of days after release, so it joined the other 100+ books on my phone)
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

  14. #419
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motu View Post
    Never read this thread, not interested. However, last night I was in Hamilton Library browsing at 10.45pm (love my Kobo) and came across Dirty Politics, and got it out. (and Muldoon's biography). It doesn't look anyone on this thread has read the book. The Kobo says I'm only 20% into it, but very interesting reading so far. Scary how the public can be manipulated.
    I've got the book on kindle and read it 'cover to cover'. So there's at least three of us.
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  15. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldrider View Post
    In this Hager case the "authortities" should be focussing their efforts on "THE CRIME" irrispective of the "GRIME" which is/was stolen private material!
    Whose crime?

    Slater's? Collin's? Ede's? Teflon John seems to have kept himself just far enough away to say it wasn't him, or he doesn't remember.......

    And, as I assume you're referring to the emails Hager got, as opposed to the dozens provided to the Slater - were they used for criminal activities and was it in the public interest? (this has a large bearing on matters)
    “- He felt that his whole life was some kind of dream and he sometimes wondered whose it was and whether they were enjoying it.”

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