Help make filtering in NZ legal - petition

[BlackSheepLogic]

Confusion by the minister between filtering & splitting. If the traffic is stopped under the current passing rules filtering is all good.

When the traffic is moving there is an issue when passing on the left (under-passing) which I would have liked seen addressed as it's being done in QLD. I'm OK with the low speed restrictions that they put in place.

Well Craig Foss is out.
He states that lane filtering by motorcycles is not legal. So if the Associate Minister of Transport say's it's not on, no wonder cops are confused when they have "guidelines" that say one thing and laws (and Ministers) that say another thing.

[TheDemonLord]

Confusion by the minister between filtering & splitting. If the traffic is stopped under the current passing rules filtering is all good.

When the traffic is moving there is an issue when passing on the left (under-passing) which I would have liked seen addressed as it's being done in QLD. I'm OK with the low speed restrictions that they put in place.

Ministers are confused - Why am I not surprised?

However I think his comment sums it up nicely - there isn't a problem per se, we all filter (at our risk and at what speed we feel comfortable) and most cops leave us to it, unless we are filtering in heavy traffic on the back wheel at 180 kph through traffic, or we are riding like knobs.

Out of curiosity - do you filter much BlackSheep? and if so, I am curious why you are okay with low speed restrictions

[BlackSheepLogic]

Out of curiosity - do you filter much BlackSheep? and if so, I am curious why you are okay with low speed restrictions

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours). The busa is a heavy bike to manage in traffic and I keep my speed to 30km/h or less. For me, the lower speed gives more time to assess what is happening around me and to manage those risks. If the drivers start making steady forward progress the risks increase and I would rather be back in line instead of dealing with them.

I see a lot of bikes filtering though the traffic a lot faster, I have no problem with that and move back in line to let them though but those riders are taking on more risk than I chose to. My view on setting a low speed limit in filtering/lane splitting legislation is not because I think filtering/lane splitting cannot be done safely at higher speeds. From a pragmatic perspective I think we are more likely to get legislation based on the legislation adopted in Australia rather than a clean slate approach.

[TheDemonLord]

I see a lot of bikes filtering though the traffic a lot faster, I have no problem with that and move back in line to let them though but those riders are taking on more risk than I chose to. My view on setting a low speed limit in filtering/lane splitting legislation is not because I think filtering/lane splitting cannot be done safely at higher speeds. From a pragmatic perspective I think we are more likely to get legislation based on the legislation adopted in Australia rather than a clean slate approach.

As you said, some people filter faster and that it can be done safely at higher speeds - if something is safe at higher speeds, we should not be kowtowing to politicians obsession with speed in order to simply get legislation passed.

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at, than have an enforced arbitrary limit which IMO doesn't make that much sense in real world filtering (given that traffic speeds up and slows down from stand still to 30 at various points on most motorways)

[yevjenko]

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at,

Illegally of course (well according to some police officers)

[scracha]

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours). The busa is a heavy bike to manage in traffic and I keep my speed to 30km/h or less. For me, the lower speed gives more time to assess what is happening around me and to manage those risks. If the drivers start making steady forward progress the risks increase and I would rather be back in line instead of dealing with them.

Hmm...if it's real, real slow then I'm more nervous as that's when car drivers are more likely to do stupid shit. Maybe the rule should be no more than 30k faster than the other traffic up to 70k?

[Berries]

On the Busa I only filter/lane split when traffic is heavily congested (for example on a motorway during peek hours).

Does that mean good visibility?

[TheDemonLord]

Illegally of course (well according to some police officers)

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....

[yevjenko]

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....

Good answer!

Any one know what they are actually charging folks with?

[Drew]

As you said, some people filter faster and that it can be done safely at higher speeds - if something is safe at higher speeds, we should not be kowtowing to politicians obsession with speed in order to simply get legislation passed.

I would rather the status quo where Riders filter at the speeds they are comfortable at, than have an enforced arbitrary limit which IMO doesn't make that much sense in real world filtering (given that traffic speeds up and slows down from stand still to 30 at various points on most motorways)

Laws cannot be made with any reference to what bikers are comfortable with. We are seemingly comfortable with killing ourselves in droves for fuck sakes!


What a stupid bloody idea. Leaving something up to people who exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills.

[James Deuce]

I think lanesplitting is probably a dead duck now. What needs to be made absolutely legal is filtering in stationary traffic and in Wellington, being allowed to use the cyclist launch bays as well.

[TheDemonLord]

Laws cannot be made with any reference to what bikers are comfortable with. We are seemingly comfortable with killing ourselves in droves for fuck sakes!


What a stupid bloody idea. Leaving something up to people who exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills.

How is that any different than leaving it to Politicians?

Actually, Laws CAN be made with reference to what society is comfortable with - you will note that Society is not comfortable with Slavery and we also have laws making it illegal, same recently with Gay marriage, Society was finally comfortable (enough) with the idea, and saw it was made into Law.

Now that we have dealt with that, let me dismantle your strawman - are we killing ourselves in droves WHILE filtering at speeds we are comfortable? From memory the biggest 2 killers of bikers is Cars turning right across the paths of bikers (not applicable while filtering on the motorway) and Bikers coming too hot into a corner on the open road and crossing the centreline (again, not applicable while filtering on the motorway)

Finally - suppose I concede that the motorcyclists do exhibit nothing but poor decision making skills - how do we address this?

The answer isn't arbitrary laws with little rational behind them or no relation to what happens in the real world - The answer is better training and identifying those at highest risks (the Fair Weather summer rider on a superbike and the Born-Again-Biker) and working WITH these groups to help them make better decisions, instead of slapping them with more ill-thought out legislation which they will almost certainly ignore (thus not doing anything to appease the problem)

[geoffm]

Well, I filter in a legal Grey area, depending on where the officer can prove my rear tyre was....

The problem is they don't need to prove it. Like speeding, just stating that you were wrong is enough to get you nailed. The onus of proof ison you to prove that you weren't wrong. Good luck...

[Devil]

Well Craig Foss is out.
He states that lane filtering by motorcycles is not legal. So if the Associate Minister of Transport say's it's not on, no wonder cops are confused when they have "guidelines" that say one thing and laws (and Ministers) that say another thing.

I have read the Road User Rule start to finish and it says no such thing about specifying that motorcycle filtering is not legal. He's talking out his arse. The legislation is freely available.

[Drew]

I have repeatedly explained how to address the issue of bikers killing ourselves. But since it requires bikers admitting fallibility, we're screwed.