Scooters are depressing

[James Deuce]

Or we understand that point and counter with it being our responsibility to do our utmost to avoid said situation.
We acknowledge that we personally will not be able to avoid every single situation but believe all situations are avoidable.
It is only a question then of:
Does the rider / driver in the given situation have the necessary tools for the job?
Is the driver / rider in that situation willing to do everything in their power to avoid a situation in the first place?
What is the balance on that vs never going riding?

For example, I had booked the Katmantana in for a ride this morning, but I cancelled it because:

1. It was raining and I've had a year off riding and I haven't calibrated my riding brain yet without dealing with the extra stuff needed to ride in the rain.
2. I've been doing long hours at work this week and woke up feeling horrible.

I put the cover back on the bike and got the train.

[Big Dog]

And had the balls to admit it on KB.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[BlackSheepLogic]

The point was if you believe you executed flawlessly and it was completely unavoidable then for all intense and purposes it is.

However, if instead you ask yourself why did I fail to see the dog, why did I not stop in time after seeing the dog, and what could I change in my riding to lessen or mitigate this unfortunate event in the future, you may avoid other unfortunate events in the future.

I feel the only improvements to make me safer on the road is to improve my riding, awareness, & attitude. Not to hope other road users, animals, children, weather conditions, miscellaneous items, road surfaces etc will stop being hazards which negatively effect my enjoyment of riding.

Self critical assessment of my riding both the good and bad gave me an open enough mind to seek out training. The biggest plus to having training is having your riding accessed by instructors who are exemplary riders. But you have to have an open enough mind to accept that there may be flaws in your riding or area where improvement could be made to make this worthwhile.

Or we understand that point and counter with it being our responsibility to do our utmost to avoid said situation.
We acknowledge that we personally will not be able to avoid every single situation but believe all situations are avoidable.
It is only a question then of:
Does the rider / driver in the given situation have the necessary tools for the job?
Is the driver / rider in that situation willing to do everything in their power to avoid a situation in the first place?
What is the balance on that vs never going riding?

People have been run over by locomotives while sleeping in their beds. So far I have avoided this, for those that have been run over this was "unavoidable" so which is true is it unavoidable or avoidable?
Clearly those who sleep in homes near railway tracks have done more to avoid this fate than a homeless person sleeping on the tracks in a rarely used tunnel.
Someone who lives further from the railway has done even more to mitigate the risk.
Each has chosen an exposure level.

[bogan]

Do you have any idea how fast a dog can run?

Given a 0.5s reaction time and general minimum of 5m to roadside shrubbery concealment, 10m/s or 36kmhr. Of course had a dog been doing those speeds you should have been warned by movement within the shrubbery beforehand, so taking acceleration from rest into account, 20m/s or 72kmhr with an acceleration of 40m/s (or roughly 4g). Greyhound on steroids that just sat on an exposed electrical cable was it?

[Banditbandit]

[bogan]

Have you not heard the saying that what should happen in theory does not always work out in practise. Good luck with your theory when/if a dog runs out at you.

It didn't work out for you because your identification and reaction time was vastly longer than 0.5s, obviously. Also evidence by your long list of crashes, all filed under 'nothing I could do'.

My theory did hold up when a dog ran at me, I had time to slow, and evade, then accelerate again cos the fucker was coming at me, not just crossing the road

[BuzzardNZ]

pro-tip for dealing with dogs running at you while on your bike...

If you have time, put your boot out and accelerate hard, I did and almost took the bastards ( a large rottie ) jaw off. Only works when dog is coming at you from the side obviously.

Also, it was this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Serepisos ) dickheads dog that came at me!

[jasonu]

You make an assumption the dog was standing in the middle of the road I was not on the ball enough to see it. Well you are wrong the dog actually ran out on the road (Do you have any idea how fast a dog can run?) and in such a situation there can be zero time to take evasive action.

Unless, as a good rider that likes to be aware of their surroundings so is constantly scanning left and right, noticed a dog on the footpath and thought 'shit I will keep my eye on that dog and be ready to take evasive action in case it runs on the road which dogs often do'.
Out runs the dog. You already are aware of its presence and take evasive action possibly a second or 2 earlier than if you hadn't seen it earlier and hopefully that is enough extra time to avoid the runaway pooch.
You could substitute in 'other vehicle' for 'dog'. The scenario and the result could be the same.

[Big Dog]

pro-tip for dealing with dogs running at you while on your bike...

If you have time, put your boot out and accelerate hard, I did and almost took the bastards ( a large rottie ) jaw off. Only works when dog is coming at you from the side obviously.

Also, it was this ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terry_Serepisos ) dickheads dog that came at me!

I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
She is friendly enough, unless she thinks you are threatening her humans.

In my experience: keep your chin up and avoid eye contact, slow as much as you can on the gears. It stops your bike from making the growl the dog recognises as threat. Most exhausts may even make a playful bark. When you draw to within a few feet of the dog, Drop 2 gears and launch forward. Ideally at the tail end but the speed should surprise the dog enough for either end to work.

Not my experience but advice I have stored away just in case from various riders and stockman: If a dog or farm animal strike becomes inevitable loosen your grip and apply a little rear brake before:
A) small animal who's spine is lower than your front axle. - hit it square and be accelerating.
B) large animal, make the blow as glancing as possible. Be accelerating.

In either case most of the time the bike will right itself as soon as you are past as long as you held on to the bars but not too tightly.

When I have had no time to brake rolling off the throttle and clutching in has caused them to change vector.

It ain't perfect but you need to understand. The dog does not want to hurt you. The dog is threatened by the sounds your bike is making or some bikes may sound like they are trying to play. Scooters for example.

This is why so many dogs come to the gate as you ride around.

Take away the threat or the offer of play and they have no interest in you.

Exception: my dog will continue to play with you if you have pot. That is what she did in the prison service. Look for pot and other recreational drugs.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
.

Why do you allow your dog to run onto the road whenever it wants to?

[Taxythingy]

Given a 0.5s reaction time and general minimum of 5m to roadside shrubbery concealment, 10m/s or 36kmhr. Of course had a dog been doing those speeds you should have been warned by movement within the shrubbery beforehand, so taking acceleration from rest into account, 20m/s or 72kmhr with an acceleration of 40m/s (or roughly 4g). Greyhound on steroids that just sat on an exposed electrical cable was it?

Think you might be being a bit harsh there. It's perfectly reasonable to have the dog run at high speed from behind a solid fence or hedge. That would be 3m to the gutter and 4-5m to the middle of the lane. The dog could easily be doing 35km/hr, so 10m/s. That places the dog 2-3m to your left when you first react. Given 50km/hr on the bike, you try stopping or swerving to avoid that. Given also that there isn't time to decide which way to go - it will have to be instinctive or to your escape plan. 0.3s of hard swerve at that speed will not move the track of the bike more than about 1m to the side.

I reckon in that kind of situation you would very likely hit the dog.

The construct is artificial, but from the limited amount I've read of the crash (just this thread), it is a reasonable one. That would put it in the unavoidable position.

If there was more information available to the rider earlier, then there is definitely room for avoidance. Then it comes down to some of the issues discussed in this thread.

[Big Dog]

Why do you allow your dog to run onto the road whenever it wants to?

I don't.
That dog got out 3 or 5 times I know about. 2 were to pursue burglars.
One was to chase off a neighbours dog who had gotten I to our back yard and she got frightened by a bike coming down the road and then suddenly pointing at her and accelerating.

My current dog has escaped less than a dozen times in since 06. Trouble with former drug dogs is I can't legally build a fence the dog can't get over at a private property.
As such I am limited to training to keep her on my property. She does stay on the property if I leave the gate open while I am home.


She has been known to bark at people in possession of recreational drugs. She has also been known to escape if I am not home and they tease her. She doesn't approach them, just follows them around sounding the alarm. 2-4 times.

When she was on a run instead of behind a fence she chewed through a couple of collars to go play. 5-8 times.
I am not aware of her hanging out on the road.

She has not escaped since we have been in the current house.

Where she is now there is a generous run she goes on when we have visitors or neighbours have parties they have warned us about. The rest of the time she wanders in the back yard behind the fence. We both know she can jump it but she doesn't.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[jasonu]

I don't.
That dog got out 3 or 5 times I know about. 2 were to pursue burglars.
One was to chase off a neighbours dog who had gotten I to our back yard and she got frightened by a bike coming down the road and then suddenly pointing at her and accelerating.

My current dog has escaped less than a dozen times in since 06. Trouble with former drug dogs is I can't legally build a fence the dog can't get over at a private property.
As such I am limited to training to keep her on my property. She does stay on the property if I leave the gate open while I am home.


She has been known to bark at people in possession of recreational drugs. She has also been known to escape if I am not home and they tease her. She doesn't approach them, just follows them around sounding the alarm. 2-4 times.

When she was on a run instead of behind a fence she chewed through a couple of collars to go play. 5-8 times.
I am not aware of her hanging out on the road.

She has not escaped since we have been in the current house.

Where she is now there is a generous run she goes on when we have visitors or neighbours have parties they have warned us about. The rest of the time she wanders in the back yard behind the fence. We both know she can jump it but she doesn't.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

I hope the dog got a good hold on the robbers and bit their nuts off.

[BuzzardNZ]

I wouldn't recommend doing that to a dog. My first dog had someone try do just that. She changed the angle of attack, leap, latch on and proceeded to pull the rider off.

25 kg of angry dog is a good way to ruin your day.

Given my current dog is ex prison service I doubt she would have much trouble doing the same if it took her fancy.
She is friendly enough, unless she thinks you are threatening her humans.

In my experience: keep your chin up and avoid eye contact, slow as much as you can on the gears. It stops your bike from making the growl the dog recognises as threat. Most exhausts may even make a playful bark. When you draw to within a few feet of the dog, Drop 2 gears and launch forward. Ideally at the tail end but the speed should surprise the dog enough for either end to work.

Not my experience but advice I have stored away just in case from various riders and stockman: If a dog or farm animal strike becomes inevitable loosen your grip and apply a little rear brake before:
A) small animal who's spine is lower than your front axle. - hit it square and be accelerating.
B) large animal, make the blow as glancing as possible. Be accelerating.

In either case most of the time the bike will right itself as soon as you are past as long as you held on to the bars but not too tightly.

When I have had no time to brake rolling off the throttle and clutching in has caused them to change vector.

It ain't perfect but you need to understand. The dog does not want to hurt you. The dog is threatened by the sounds your bike is making or some bikes may sound like they are trying to play. Scooters for example.

This is why so many dogs come to the gate as you ride around.

Take away the threat or the offer of play and they have no interest in you.

Exception: my dog will continue to play with you if you have pot. That is what she did in the prison service. Look for pot and other recreational drugs.



Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

u r right, dogs don't seem to like certain bike sounds, mines a v twin with two brothers pipes, so kind of loud and I'm sure this is what set the dog off.

I never had time to think ( was going about 50kph ), nor make eye contact with this huge mutt, it just sprung out of nowhere and it was instinctive that I did what I did ( i.e. booted it )

I love dogs and have owned a few different breeds ( English Bull Terrier ,Rhodesian Ridgeback and Doberman ) and always kept them secured in the property, other people that own large dogs should do the same as they can be a huge hazard to bikers!

[Big Dog]

I hope the dog got a good hold on the robbers and bit their nuts off.

The old dog.
Sort of...

Night one. muffled talking on the deck. Sent the dog who had come to wake me up to "investigate", as soon as she started investigating at full noise they took off. I got up and got her some some dog roll and a cameo creame.

Night two. she woke me up, I told her to be quiet until the ranch slider opened, she stopped at the end of the block when I called her. More dog roll and biscuits.
A night or two later it sounded like the same lot. I did not call her back.
A few hours later she came back. Carrying a back pocket. A bit of blood on the pocket too.

I can't remember it was a long time ago there may have been another time she went berserk before they even got as far as the deck. Either way not fast learners. I think the muffled talking may have been to get her attention in a no bark means dog is still at work with the owner kind of thing.


I was worried the police or animal control would get involved. They didn't


The new dog: In spite of chasing off several persons of indiscernible intent she has always stopped at the boundary barring one time she chased two thugs in dark hoodies down the road after they got into their poxy Mazda Familia.
She came back after a block though.

A few months ago though the neighbors had a party they had not warned me about so I did not tie the dog up. Among the kids at the part were several that were carrying.
When she started "alerting" I went out and politely warned them that she was a former drug dog and if they wanted the barking to stop could they please take their "party favours" back to their cars or at least stay away from the fence. About a dozen unhappy looking individuals made trips to their cars.
I went back inside but she started alerting again. I looked out the window and there were a group teasing her through the fence. Throwing ice at her, squirting her with water bottles, making growling noises etc.
So I went back out into the back yard and politely informed them they might want to reconsider, that her training meant the fence they were leaning on would not contain her if she really wanted out. They backed away from the fence but I did not even get back to the couch before she started alerting again. I went back outside and rather than explain it to this feeble minded lot I took a fence paling left over from building the fence and hoisted the tyre she has used as a chew toy since she was a pup and hoisted it as high at the fence. They backed away from the fence when she leaped up to take it...
The Dux amongst them thought now was a good time to throw ice at her again. So I hoisted the tyre up a little higher so she could jump for it... raising it a little more each time until she was jumping high enough to get it from the end of the paling held up by my out stretched arm. I am not short so I would estimate between 2.2 and 2.5 metres. I am 1.93M and her back legs were going higher than my head.
I then walked over to the fellow who had been chucking ice. "I think we both know she can clear this fence, without a run up. Do you really want her to work that out champ?".

The party went on until daylight the next day, the music got turned down at about 3, but I did not hear another peep out of the dog before I brought her in for the night about 12:30-1am.