Police getting tougher on speed tolerance

[Edbear]

Okay, Devils Advocate time:

(before I start, I should point out that on the way back from Dannevegas, I encountered this situation heaps of times)

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

A more in depth question is this:

We all know that overtaking is a higher risk move - it puts you into the opposing stream of traffic. The best overtake involves accelerating in your lane and minimising your Time Exposed to Danger. so a good overtaking move would be accelerating from 80 - 120 in your lane, pulling into the oncoming lane for the shortest possible time before resuming your travels at the law-abiding 100 kph (of course)

Next if we factor into this scenario that often the people that hold everyone up can generally do 100-110 kph on the nice straight bits of road where you have enough visibility to safely overtake (assuming of course that there isn't traffic coming the other way ruining every stretch of road where it would be possible to overtake - but that is another gripe) but can't for the life of them go round a corner or up a hill at anything resembling reasonable open road speed.

So now, we have Driver number 2 who doesn't want to get ticketed, sticking to the 1 kph tolerance, stuck behind someone going slow, but speeds up on any bit of road where an overtake could be possible to the point that overtaking with a 1 kph tolerance wouldn't be safe - so they decide not to overtake - How can you fault Driver number 2 for their actions whilst supporting the Company line?

For the record - I do often fault Driver number 2 for not overtaking where it is possible - I fault them as much as I fault the person who can't travel on the open road at the speed limit (conditions allowing) as the actions of Driver number 2 means driver number 3 either needs to overtake 2 cars, or Leap-frog (which is generally seen as an asshole move) and so doesn't overtake, then you get driver number 4, because of the actions of drivers 2 and 3 etc. ad infinatum ad nauseam.

I myself try and overtake as quick as possible to allow those behind me to also overtake, I often do this whilst playing a loose with the speed limit (to minimize my TED) but to come back to the point - The Police's Lower tolerance (be it 4 kph or 10) directly translates into people not overtaking when they should - And whilst I can see many of the technical difficulties you have raised with ticketing someone - I myself don't care, as many of the difficulties are IMHO a direct result of Police Policy.

You make a valid point. On a passing lane l usually find I need to do between 120 -130 to safely overtake the leading car by the end of the lane. Once done I drop back to below the tolerance. That used to mean for me, 104 on the GPS but now it's 100. If I set the cruise control at 100km/h I will gradually pull ahead due to the other drivers constantly slowing down and being unable to maintain a steady speed.

I do think that there should be a leeway up to 120 on passing lanes. Just my opinion.

[unstuck]

You make a valid point. On a passing lane l usually find I need to do between 120 -130 to safely overtake the leading car by the end of the lane. Once done I drop back to below the tolerance. That used to mean for me, 104 on the GPS but now it's 100. If I set the cruise control at 100km/h I will gradually pull ahead due to the other drivers constantly slowing down and being unable to maintain a steady speed.

I do think that there should be a leeway up to 120 on passing lanes. Just my opinion.

Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore whoever resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment. For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God's wrath on the wrongdoer. Therefore one must be in subjection, not only to avoid God's wrath but also for the sake of conscience.

[TheDemonLord]

Here is a notion, to over take you need to be able to see a clear area in front of you for about the distance of the passing move, plus 100 meters..... if you see a policeman and you will be unable to pass at the legal limit don't overtake.
Conversely if you don't see a policeman feel free to complete the overtaking manoeuvre at any speed you see fit.

And what about vans parked off the road or the cop the comes round the corner when you are slowing down post overtake (cause jamming your brakes on after an overtake is a massive dick move) - I get your sentiments, but this is more about the mindset that Police policy has cultivated and the unwillingness of the NZ police to deal with the other side of the coin: people going slow for no reason, Caravans/horse floats/trailers and boats not pulling over left to let traffic pass

[R650R]

Both tickets and warnings issued by me up until I finished for Xmas and boy oh boy did I get given my pedigree by most I stopped. Apparently many of them have decided they are self imposed speed restrictors, ensuring others don't speed even though their own speedos are reading up to 10kph fast.

The same pricks like to pass trucks and then dance on the brake pedal to do the same thing... with potential lethal consequences for other innocent road users. How ever a tactical driving manoever usually results from that meaning a *555 call to report them is invalid...

Pet hate while on holiday, assholes with 4 or 5 bikes hanging off a towbar mount. Obscured indicators, tail lights, brakes lights and number plates. Get roof mounts, rear lightbars and plate or a trailer people!

Don't be shy about ticketing them, there has been ample publicity about this through the bike clubs and it seems the flasher the SUV the more less likely they are bothered with a plate and more likely to be crap overtakers....
Mine goes in the back of station wagon

Speaking of cyclists the roads are safer now this fella has gone back to where he came from. Note at the 17-27 second segment he fails to brake to avoid the 'dangerous' situation and continues pedalling furiously to get his gopro footage. This is the danger from joe blow playing at being cop. Wonder if any of the cops named in the vid or the NZ police plan on suing for defamation....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTCs_h-mjc

[R650R]

Just a couple of things to think on.

All very good points and well explained.

[Edbear]

Now THERE's a can of worms question from an enforcement point of view.

The relevant rule is Section 2.1(2) of the Land Transport (Road User) Rule 2004.

It says
[INDENT]
(2)If a driver's speed, when driving, is such as to impede the normal and reasonable flow of traffic, that driver must, as soon as is reasonably practicable, move the vehicle as far as practicable to the left side of the roadway when this is necessary to allow following traffic to pass.[INDENT]

Right, that's the rule. Now, how the hell do we enforce it.

Say I'm sitting at the side of the road eating donuts on my troll bike when I see a line of 11 cars coming toward me, doing say 70, in a 100 kmh area. Before I can take enforcement action I'd need to know how long they had been like that for, how many opportunities they have had for the lead car to pull over as required, whether in fact it was the second car which was the problem for not overtaking when the chance was there. The third vehicle too, and the fourth. Right down to the back few. What say the guy in car 2, 3, 4 et al are happy to be doing 70........who is the problem?

Say the first four are all travelling together, to the Summer Old Age Pension Big Day Out, featuring Jerry and the Pacemakers. Sponsored by the manufacturer of the Pacemakers, incidentally. I'd need to deal with all four.

See, it's not as simple as it sounds. Potentially, and from my experience, it's the second car in those lines that deserves the ticket most, as they have had plenty of opportunities to pass, and haven't done so.

Okay, let's put me at number 5 in the line of 11 cars. Then I'm in a far better position to see what the problem is, as I've watched the situation unfold over some distance, and have some real idea what's happening.

But say I was travelling the other way, and saw the 11 going past me in the other direction. How could I address all those issues with a glance at the cars going the opposite way to me. Then if I did decide to do something, I'd be U-turning behind number 11, and forcing them all to let me past to get to number 1, who might not be the biggest problem.

Just hoping to make youse fullas aware that it ain't as easy as it sounds. Generally, I pull the first car over, allowing all the traffic to pass. Then I set them off to the Pacemakers Get Together with nobody behind them. Without a ticket.

Another wee point, is that it's often the older folk who are the slower ones. If you don't know the older person holding you up, you want them ticketed to death. But if that was your own grand mother, how would you like it dealt with?

Just a couple of things to think on.

Shoot her.

I told my 82 year old Mum to just keep in the left lane on Motorways. She usually keeps left and allows traffic to pass on the open road.

[R650R]

There is another angle to "holding up traffic" and it's from the seat of a truck. So I'm 23m long, empty, and trucking back from say...New Plymouth. At each passing lane I indicate left, slow from my 88 kmh limited speed to about 75-80 to make it easier for the 5-10 cars behind me to scoot past. Now there's plenty of times that only one car will pull out to overtake. So after a few passing lanes of this, the same 5-10 cars just sit behind me...and we've gone down plenty of straight roads to make an overtake without the aid of a passing lane easily achievable. In the interests of safety, when I then get to a township or place where I can safely get the truck off the road, I pull over and the mixed reward is some toots and some abuse in the form of the middle finger...hey, it mostly happens during holiday periods, and no it doesn't surprise me. I just put it down to "townie" drivers not being confident enough on the big road

The paranoia about speed enforcement is part of this equation I'll admit.

Yep same on the Napier-Taupo road, except even fully loaded with 600hp and knowing the road you can outpace most drivers everywhere except the biggest hills. In daytime traffic it was always 90-94 on cruise control across the plains, pulling hard left on start of straights and flicking the indicator but nobody will pass. Mostly as the first car will be so close to your back doors they cant even see its a straight road, cars 2 and 3 are waiting for 1 to start passing. 2 and 3 finally decide to pass but abort when they see 4 and 5 in their mirrors looking like their going to..... Then you get to the bottom of the Waipungas and leave most of them behind through the twisties. Come the Tarawera hairpin they all want to come past, most of them will hold you up through the next section till after double crossing though....

I always made a judgement call of how many and what type of drivers behind if I pulled over or not. There are some that are hanging back to far and you know it will be dangerous if they come at it half baked. One Xmas I had about 30 cars behind me at Tarawera, none of them had taken the opportunities on the plains so screw them I wasn't stopping, was tight on my log book and couldn't afford the time lost of trying to break into the traffic again. Told the boss he might get some phone calls but none. I proceeded to leave most of them behind through the next section and it wasn't till the kiwis passing lane that most of them started coming past...

Oh well wont have to worry about all that drama on the new trolley next month

[scumdog]

Do you think that the 1 Km Tolerance is going to help this situation?

.

Sorry to grinch on your otherwise IK post BUT:

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?

How many have been pulled over and spoken to about it.."'Scuse me but I stopped you as you were doing 101kph and the limit is 100".

Or even more important, how many have ever recieved a ticket for doing exactly 1kph over the limit? "Not your day sir, 101khp and there I was waiting for you with my trusty radar and you KNOW the speed limit is 100kph"

Maybe it's a different world up there but down here I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

(Sorta reminds me of that song "one toke over the line...")

[R650R]

The only two cars that pissed me off both did the same thing, used a passing lane to overtake then sat in the passing lane until I made my displeasure known.
The horn in the Subaru lacks the authority...

Ditch the Subaru and buy anything else except a Skyline or Cefiro.... any Subaru says 'boyracer' whether it is one or not and people will show you less respect...

[Akzle]

Ditch the Subaru and buy anything else except a Skyline or Cefiro.... any Subaru says 'boyracer' whether it is one or not and people will show you less respect...

dunno. s GG series B4 sleeper does alright... (ie no wanky boot handle, discotech lights or pish noise)

[scumdog]

Speaking of cyclists the roads are safer now this fella has gone back to where he came from. Note at the 17-27 second segment he fails to brake to avoid the 'dangerous' situation and continues pedalling furiously to get his gopro footage. This is the danger from joe blow playing at being cop. Wonder if any of the cops named in the vid or the NZ police plan on suing for defamation....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHTCs_h-mjc

The mans a twat - a moaning old lady of a twat who should pick better roads/time to cycle.

He's expecting a lot of give from traffic in hectic crowded situations.

And did he get out a ruler to see if those cops were under the recommended distance from him as they passed - oh, after all the bagging of cops (for whatever reason) did he ever go to them to complain about their driving and the driving of others around him? - or is he just a whinger?

[R650R]

dunno. s GG series B4 sleeper does alright... (ie no wanky boot handle, discotech lights or pish noise)

B4's aren't too bad mate had one as company car once.... but still a Subaru and now they are becoming affordable to local ferals thanks to finance.....
I would actually like one myself if they weren't so small inside and the associated image of owning one....

[R650R]

The mans a twat - a moaning old lady of a twat who should pick better roads/time to cycle.

He's expecting a lot of give from traffic in hectic crowded situations.

And did he get out a ruler to see if those cops were under the recommended distance from him as they passed - oh, after all the bagging of cops (for whatever reason) did he ever go to them to complain about their driving and the driving of others around him? - or is he just a whinger?

Oh he complained so much they stopped taking him seriously. He was on TV one news awhile back after the police labelled him a veaxatious litigant, eg serial complainer/axe grinder.
You can bet he never biked though otara or manukau mouthing off like that...

[TheDemonLord]

Sorry to grinch on your otherwise IK post BUT:

WHY is there this paranoia about getting a ticket for doing 1km over the speed limit?

How many have been pulled over and spoken to about it.."'Scuse me but I stopped you as you were doing 101kph and the limit is 100".

Or even more important, how many have ever recieved a ticket for doing exactly 1kph over the limit? "Not your day sir, 101khp and there I was waiting for you with my trusty radar and you KNOW the speed limit is 100kph"

Maybe it's a different world up there but down here I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

(Sorta reminds me of that song "one toke over the line...")

Different reasons for different people:

Some don't want the hassle of being stopped
Some don't want to pay the fine
Some don't want Mr Plod taking a closer look at their vehicle
Some don't want Mr Plod taking a closer look at their Licence (or lack thereof)
Some don't want Demerits
Some don't want the embarressment

etc.

I agree that in general one would have to be pretty unlucky - but with the Police campaigns publicly declaring that they will be ticketing for 1 kph over - can you fault the NZ public for the state of paranoia?. As for me - I did get ticketed a wee while ago - 107 in 100, just after I had overtaken someone and was slowing back down to the speed limit

[_Shrek_]

I've never heard from either side of the fence about somebody being pulled over for "1kph over the limit"

dead right there scummy, was cruising along toward Alex over taking at gorge creek & as I went over the top & down the other side over took & was thinking of doing it to the next, I thought as he gave me a wee reminder of who he was.... I owe that man & we sat at 100k (gps 100) all the way to Alex