Turbo or supercharged 2Ts?

[turbokemi]

Oil supply would be a bit of an issue when turbing a 2t

And weldon makes turbo feed and savage pumps

[Yow Ling]

And weldon makes turbo feed and savage pumps

Yes, there is an engineering solution. A 50 cc two stroke has no provision for a pressure oil system, even one that only has to supply 5 psi to the bearings, an electric pump will use say 25 w from an already small electrical supply. also if you are using the gearbox oil supply which is probably around .5 litres the oil will heat up , so you may need an oil cooler or a seperate oil supply. Its not impossible just comes with a few challenges.

The ecotrons RHB3 copy turbo looks ok as it has ball bearings , but then in some more of their literature they refer to plain bearings, so maybe lucky dip.

[turbokemi]

A ballbearing turbo needs about 1 bar oil pressure, the minarelli turbo boost busters did build uses a weldon oil pump, and they figured out that the rhb31 is to small and made to much back pressure and made the engine to heat up to much, så they used a k03 turbo with some special specifics, they have a video on YouTube, but he speaks Swedish when he tells about the minarelli turbo

[turbokemi]

Yes, there is an engineering solution. A 50 cc two stroke has no provision for a pressure oil system, even one that only has to supply 5 psi to the bearings, an electric pump will use say 25 w from an already small electrical supply. also if you are using the gearbox oil supply which is probably around .5 litres the oil will heat up , so you may need an oil cooler or a seperate oil supply. Its not impossible just comes with a few challenges.

The ecotrons RHB3 copy turbo looks ok as it has ball bearings , but then in some more of their literature they refer to plain bearings, so maybe lucky dip.

Can't there be fitted a small battery somewhere?

[husaberg]

Something like a crf50 or similar oil pump driven of the autolube drive..........

http://www.dratv.com/oilpu27cotos1.html

[turbokemi]

When you turbocharge a 2 stroke, the best turbo lubrication is synthetic 2 stroke mix oil, that's what we lubricate our turbos on sleds, because a turbo is not totally sealed, and some oil will leak outin to the inlet or exhaust side, so if you use 4 stroke engine oil, and that doesn't burn up like 2 stroke oil, and 4 stroke oil makes a awful smell to the exhaust if it leaks to the intake side, and reduces power to

[turbokemi]

I know some guys here in norway that makes custom turbo oilpumps just for turbo 2T projects, if you have original 2t oil mix pump, they will replace it with a cusom made high volume and pressure pump to feed oil to turbo, or if you are handy, you could make a belt drivven pump thats mounted on the flywheel or something?

[TZ350]

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With two stroke EFI and Turbocharging becoming more common I am thinking about putting forward this proposed amendment to rule 24.2 that gives the 2T tuners the same forced induction options that the 4T tuners enjoy. F4 & F5 is a developers class so its only fair the 2T team have the same options as the 4T crew, the bigger question is an appropriate capacity, constructive input would be welcome.


24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.


Change 24.2 to read as below.


24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity and F4 2 stroke engines of less than 70cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.


Reason for Rule Change


There are a lot of people that are attracted to Buckets and two strokes for the shear fun of building something interesting. F4 four strokes have a turbo and/or supercharging option, so to be fair, two strokes should have that option to.

[F5 Dave]

I propose amendment to 4 strokes of 60cc and 2 strokes of 40cc may be super or turbocharged.

Reason. Have a look a F1 and Rally experience.

A further restriction: if it is suspected with or without proof, that boost is increased over 10psi that one wheel will be forfeited.

Just to be fair.

[husaberg]

I propose amendment to 4 strokes of 60cc and 2 strokes of 40cc may be super or turbocharged.

Reason. Have a look a F1 and Rally experience.

A further restriction: if it is suspected with or without proof, that boost is increased over 10psi that one wheel will be forfeited.

Just to be fair.

Throw in a the cc eq of 2mm overbore or eq cc increase for all (no stroking up as well though)

[FastFred]

I propose if it is suspected with or without proof, that boost is increased over 10psi that one wheel will be forfeited. Just to be fair.

seems fair to me ...

[Grumph]

Throw in a the cc eq of 2mm overbore or eq cc increase for all (no stroking up as well though)

No way Jose...leave it at 100/70 split for 2 reasons.

1 There are 100cc 4T projects under way now as we all know.
2 In these small sizes that is a huge capacity increase and of course builders would go to the max overbore right from the start...

Looks Ok to me - Now find an MNZ club who will take it further - and quite quickly as remits are closing shortly I believe.

[husaberg]

No way Jose...leave it at 100/70 split for 2 reasons.

1 There are 100cc 4T projects under way now as we all know.
2 In these small sizes that is a huge capacity increase and of course builders would go to the max overbore right from the start...

Looks Ok to me - Now find an MNZ club who will take it further - and quite quickly as remits are closing shortly I believe.

I was meaning for the 100,2s 125,2s and 150's 4s

[Bert]

No way Jose...leave it at 100/70 split for 2 reasons.

1 There are 100cc 4T projects under way now as we all know.
2 In these small sizes that is a huge capacity increase and of course builders would go to the max overbore right from the start...

Looks Ok to me - Now find an MNZ club who will take it further - and quite quickly as remits are closing shortly I believe.

Maybe something AMCC, VMCC or chch...

[TALLIS]

.

With two stroke EFI and Turbocharging becoming more common I am thinking about putting forward this proposed amendment to rule 24.2 that gives the 2T tuners the same forced induction options that the 4T tuners enjoy. F4 & F5 is a developers class so its only fair the 2T team have the same options as the 4T crew, the bigger question is an appropriate capacity, constructive input would be welcome.


24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.


Change 24.2 to read as below.


24.2 Engines must be derived from non-competition motorcycles. Motocross, Road Racing, Enduro and Go Kart motors and transmission parts are not permitted. There shall be no restriction on the make, type or design of carburettor, ignition, exhaust, piston, cam, valve springs or cooling system except for class eligibility. All engines must be normally aspirated except F4 4 stroke engines of less than 100cc capacity and F4 2 stroke engines of less than 70cc capacity, which may be turbo or supercharged. F4 2 stroke engines over 104cc are restricted to carburation equivalent to a single 24mm carburettor, F5 4 stroke engines over 53cc are restricted to carburetion equivalent to a single 20mm carburettor.


Reason for Rule Change


There are a lot of people that are attracted to Buckets and two strokes for the shear fun of building something interesting. F4 four strokes have a turbo and/or supercharging option, so to be fair, two strokes should have that option to.

How about you build one, find somewhere to run it. See how it goes, if it goes to good forget about it. Oh is this the 85 mx thread? Oh wait, same rules should apply to this, only fair...