My first poll for the NZ public

[bogan]

Only if you struggle.

See, that farmer article said nothing about brutal dictatorships like I knew your RBE was hiding

[mashman]

See, that farmer article said nothing about brutal dictatorships like I knew your RBE was hiding

I'm obviously not hiding it.

[Brian d marge]

Aboard? I left myself off that list because the idea of an RBE you and mashy put forward does not fit with my own. I'll have no problem jumping on board if you guys prove it can work, but personally I'll ensure my means greatly exceeds the needs/wants of an RBE society before helping initiate one, and ensure that the society's means greatly exceeds its needs/wants before joining one.

Where mashie and I differ is on the unit of exchange . .I cant see it working in a modern society with out some medium of exchange
Debt free bitcoin or something
He reckons ya dont need

[bogan]

Where mashie and I differ is on the unit of exchange . .I cant see it working in a modern society with out some medium of exchange
Debt free bitcoin or something
He reckons ya dont need

I assume you mean some sort of standardised currency where say 1000 units equates to the average production or use of its citizens and supply is adjusted to match etc? I'm not sure how that would alleviate the me-me-me mentality, the hoarding, and lending would be much reduced, but I fear would just end up as a black market operation.

[Brian d marge]

I assume you mean some sort of standardised currency where say 1000 units equates to the average production or use of its citizens and supply is adjusted to match etc? I'm not sure how that would alleviate the me-me-me mentality, the hoarding, and lending would be much reduced, but I fear would just end up as a black market operation.

Yes

But the me me me thing didnt cone from the movement of currency rather than the ethic behind the movement
If you remember the mantra margret and ronnie and pavlovs dog roger mellie the man on telly formally act party used to spout
Remember gordon gecko
Greed is good
The media is used to promote agendas . , .

[bogan]

Yes

But the me me me thing didnt cone from the movement of currency rather than the ethic behind the movement
If you remember the mantra margret and ronnie and pavlovs dog roger mellie the man on telly formally act party used to spout
Remember gordon gecko
Greed is good
The media is used to promote agendas . , .

That may be, so why the need to change currency at all? If all it takes is a change of mindset, surely the idea of an RBE emerging from within the current economical system is not only feasible, but preferable?

[Ocean1]

I assume you mean some sort of standardised currency where say 1000 units equates to the average production or use of its citizens and supply is adjusted to match etc? I'm not sure how that would alleviate the me-me-me mentality, the hoarding, and lending would be much reduced, but I fear would just end up as a black market operation.

There's only one reason anyone might want to separate income from the production that earns it: they're too fucking lazy to be bothered.

Mushmate's modus idiotic is to remove the token used to measure production in some vague hope that nobody will notice that some pigs ain't all that equal.

BdM's is presumably to distribute it to whoever he thinks deserves it more than those that actually earn it.

Both tragic, farcical attempts to ignore the elephant in the corner: It's the productive that own the results of their efforts, they decide how they'll spend it, nobody else. If they really believed otherwise they'd have no hesitation in disbursing the sum total results of their own productive effort to those they think deserve it more.

Don't hold your breath.

[Brian d marge]

There's only one reason anyone might want to separate income from the production that earns it: they're too fucking lazy to be bothered.

Mushmate's modus idiotic is to remove the token used to measure production in some vague hope that nobody will notice that some pigs ain't all that equal.

BdM's is presumably to distribute it to whoever he thinks deserves it more than those that actually earn it.

Both tragic, farcical attempts to ignore the elephant in the corner: It's the productive that own the results of their efforts, they decide how they'll spend it, nobody else. If they really believed otherwise they'd have no hesitation in disbursing the sum total results of their own productive effort to those they think deserve it more.

Don't hold your breath.

That wasnt parsley you sprinkled on your pizza

Tropic thunder all the way

[bogan]

There's only one reason anyone might want to separate income from the production that earns it: they're too fucking lazy to be bothered.

Mushmate's modus idiotic is to remove the token used to measure production in some vague hope that nobody will notice that some pigs ain't all that equal.

BdM's is presumably to distribute it to whoever he thinks deserves it more than those that actually earn it.

Both tragic, farcical attempts to ignore the elephant in the corner: It's the productive that own the results of their efforts, they decide how they'll spend it, nobody else. If they really believed otherwise they'd have no hesitation in disbursing the sum total results of their own productive effort to those they think deserve it more.

Don't hold your breath.

I'd change that to "There's only one reason anyone might want to separate another person's income from the production that earns it: they're too fucking lazy to be bothered."

I think by the producer giving and sharing their income, we can essentially separate the income from the production that earns it. But that is the only acceptable way to do so. Top down, cascade type effect where by sharing, the net spend is lowered, meaning more superfluous wealth and sharing in turn; it's much like what that Jacque Fresco guy (who actually coined the term R.B.E in this context) proposes.

[mashman]

Where mashie and I differ is on the unit of exchange . .I cant see it working in a modern society with out some medium of exchange
Debt free bitcoin or something

This is why:

I assume you mean some sort of standardised currency where say 1000 units equates to the average production or use of its citizens and supply is adjusted to match etc?

Once such a question is asked, the Why forever becomes a secondary consideration to, can it be afforded.

He reckons ya dont need

The way I look at it. If you can convince people to accept a new currency, why not no currency at all. The benefits speak for themselves and it's a single choice that fixes all sorts of issues that are close to the hearts of the people of New Zealand .

[mashman]

Both tragic, farcical attempts to ignore the elephant in the corner: It's the productive that own the results of their efforts, they decide how they'll spend it, nobody else. If they really believed otherwise they'd have no hesitation in disbursing the sum total results of their own productive effort to those they think deserve it more.

Don't hold your breath.

Aye. Be great to ask the productive if they would be happy to give their labour away for free.

[bogan]

The way I look at it. If you can convince people to accept a new currency, why not no currency at all. The benefits speak for themselves and it's a single choice that fixes all sorts of issues that are close to the hearts of the people of New Zealand .

Because a new currency would still equate production to spending. No currency would not.

Or to put it another way. Once such a question is asked, the Why forever becomes a secondary consideration to, can it be afforded.

[mashman]

Because a new currency would still equate production to spending. No currency would not.

Or to put it another way. Once such a question is asked, the Why forever becomes a secondary consideration to, can it be afforded.

Right.....

[Brian d marge]

Well what ever could be

Is much better than what has been
And the reason the country isnt performing as well as it could

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/c...g/rs_sub_3.htm

Ponzi scheme is nail on head

[bogan]

Well what ever could be

Is much better than what has been
And the reason the country isnt performing as well as it could

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/c...g/rs_sub_3.htm

Ponzi scheme is nail on head

Now that is just whimsical thinking. I get that you don't like debt, but so many others (both borrowers and lenders) do. And you've still not answered why a debt free society cannot emerge from the current one (simply by not taking on debt) if that is so much the better?