Long distance event safety

[rastuscat]

Yep you're right of course. I remember about 25 years ago when the Auckland Uni bike club used to head out, at times we'd have our own Police M/C escort. Mostly just to lend a bit of guidance, at other times it would be a full-on turnout of the WOF and REGO check brigade.

It's a shame the PC nonsense gets in the way of having group fun, but hey, it's always a small group of heroes who spoil it for the majority isn't it?

25 years back there were no Police riders. It was MoT or nobody. I was one of the nobody's back then, being a snake in Orkers. Rode on a couple of the local rides back then, like the Sherrif riding shotgun.

We are fully behind the endurance rides in our village. We met the orgy-niser in rhe OP with a view to understanding the event better, so we can allay any fears in our company re runnin it. Luckily it looks like it might even be better than before, and potentially safer. How can that be bad? Interesting turns being talked about, the orgy guy is a real lateral thinker.

No wish to control anything other than the over reaction one of our managers had last year.

Donuts.

[Bald Eagle]

25 years back there were no Police riders. It was MoT or nobody. I was one of the nobody's back then, being a snake in Orkers. .

Don't forget the Auck City Traffic and Mt Albert Traffic varieties as well - jeeze must be getting old.

[caspernz]

Don't forget the Auck City Traffic and Mt Albert Traffic varieties as well - jeeze must be getting old.

Got me worried now, and only on account of my age.... No not really, all that really mattered was that the disparity between the good officials and the enthusiastic enforcers of old and nowadays, is much of a muchness...

I know this is a very generalised statement here, but if an organiser has the nous to quell the troublesome 1% then officialdom can be kept at bay for a little while longer. Thinking back to the Auckland Uni days, misbehave and you'd get a quiet word from one of the fellas organising the ride. And that's quite apart from the pre-ride drill.

Not much point focusing all our anger onto the Police, even if one of their managers gets rather enthusiastic?

Good on Rastuscat for taking a pro-active approach after the TT drama created by a new Police manager

[gijoe1313]

The event itself isn't straying near any laws... after all, anyone is allowed to ride on any public road.

As I said, there are other reasons, which I'm not going to go into, and is for those who it does affect, to comment on.

Ultimately, I want to see these events continue, as I've partaken in several and it's a great way to get a like-minded bunch together.

And therein lies the problem, the company you have to keep! Never has there been a more disparate collection of scum and villany, laced with depraved morals and questionable tastes! Arrrrrr!

[nzspokes]

And therein lies the problem, the company you have to keep! Never has there been a more disparate collection of scum and villany, laced with depraved morals and questionable tastes! Arrrrrr!

Sounds like my kinda crowd.

[longwayfromhome]

I know this is a bit late, but one line of research that will pay some dividends is to look at the American experience... here is a good place to start... http://www.ironbutt.com/about/default.cfm . They have a good set of tips here... http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/aowprintout.cfm . Though their riding conditions are very different (generally), fatigue is fatigue, and there is a wealth of experience for interested parties to tap into. From my experience plus talking/reading with two very successful US endurance riders, safety mainly comes down to personal responsibility.

[CookMySock]

[...] the meeting was to address concerns regarding fatigue and potential speed, what things might I raise? [...] how can we make it safer?

You will be unable. The more you do, the more people will become complacent, and your good intentions will backfire.

IMO, the best way to ensure(sic) safety is to rudely and bluntly inform people there is no safety net, is not going to BE any safety net, and their fuckup is 100% their own problem, kthx bye!. This way, everyone is on high alert to not fuckup, which is as good as you'll get.

[Maha]

I know this is a bit late, but one line of research that will pay some dividends is to look at the American experience... here is a good place to start... http://www.ironbutt.com/about/default.cfm . They have a good set of tips here... http://www.ironbutt.com/tech/aowprintout.cfm . Though their riding conditions are very different (generally), fatigue is fatigue, and there is a wealth of experience for interested parties to tap into. From my experience plus talking/reading with two very successful US endurance riders, safety mainly comes down to personal responsibility.

It certainly does...in a group riding situation, all that the Ride organiser can do is, basically what Steve has said below.

You will be unable. The more you do, the more people will become complacent, and your good intentions will backfire.

IMO, the best way to ensure(sic) safety is to rudely and bluntly inform people there is no safety net, is not going to BE any safety net, and their fuckup is 100% their own problem, kthx bye!. This way, everyone is on high alert to not fuckup, which is as good as you'll get.

I have to agree with that Steve..more often than not, if a rider bins, there is always some 'other' reason as to why it happened.
What goes on inside the helmet is a good place look first.

[LBD]

Whoops, come in a bit late...serves me right for not paying attention...Guess the "Friday meeting" with the event organiser is over by now.

Some general ramblings in no order....

1) Others have already mentioned the TWO key factors in completing such endurance runs....Know your own ability and Recognise the signs of fatigue. Hand in hand with that is being prepared to quit or lower the mark rather than push on and take risks. I know what I can handle and year before last, after 2 hours of patchy fog in the middle of the night I knew I reached that limit . I pulled over at the Athol coffee shop at 4 am, sat on a seat out side and had a "power nap" woke refreshed and carried on.

2) Last TT, I set out to prove a point, that Diamond could be acheived legally with a good break. I used a spot messenger/tracker to verify and completed Diamond at speeds within the speed limit plus the 4% tolerance that weekend, and included a hot shower, dinner, 6 1/2 hours sleep and breakfast....cooked by a top son inlaw at 4 am.

3)Coffee ...buggar that, 5 minutes after drinking coffee, I am busting for a pee and riding with legs crossed.

4) Compulsary stops. With the exception of those with physicological disorders compelling them to carry 27000L gas, the rest of us have to stop every couple of hours to refuel either at a servo or to top up from the jerry can we carry, they are the compulsary stops. Every stop for me involves a juice or choc milk and a bar of sorts. I know from experience this is enough to keep me going between the mainbreaks. I also know that I am good for 2 hours between these small breaks. Half the fun of runs like the TT are the planning, studying maps, organising fuel stops and breaks etc...that is what made the last TT so enjoyable for me...to take the planning factor out by having a largly predetermined route, would take much of the fun out of the event.

5) I would be keen to see police endorsment and involvment even if only for the organisers sake...to be seen working with the authorities will help ensure the event continues and would minimise the organisers concerns of liabilities. I would not object to a penalty organised in conjunction with the police...these are the regos of the participants...if any of these gets a speed infringment they will be suspended from the following years event..

6) Fatigue is interesting...I beleive I have had an advantage over most at the last three TTs....Jet lag. I arrive in the country knackered on Thursday arvo, Pick up the bike go to rellies and crash. Wake up at midnight, go to the shed and prepare the bike, sort gear etc. Have a good breakfast, natter etc, back to bed about 9 am and wake 4 pm ready for the start of the event...all fresh for a ride through the night because my body clock is out of kilter NZ time

7) Lack of sleep or long working hours experience may be a factor...I arrive to the rally from regular 12 hour days and 6 hours sleep per night...I wonder how that sort of "training" affects our ability to stay focused for long hours in the saddle? I cannot comment on the benifit of training rides as it is 4 months at least between rides for me.

8) I mentioned small snack and drinks every fuel stop... Stopping for a big feed for me is a bad move when the hours are getting on...with a comfy full tummy all I want to do is nod off.

9) Foggy conditions and the early dawn twilight make the eyes strain and again that is a killer, I try and stop for the 1/2 hour around dawn. Lighting is another key factor....the better the lighting the less strain on the eyes the less tiring the ride is. This bollocks about only allowing 2 forward lights on a bike of 55W is wrong. Bikes should be allowed the same high beam power as a car.

10) Warm and dry...when the body is cold it burns energy to try and stay warm, and then tires easily. Good gear to keep warm and dry is essential to completeing these runs safely...luxuries like heated grips and a heated vest....(and socks cough cough) all help conserve the body's energy and help stave off fatigue.

I fully appreciate the reasons the organisers are seeking to apease the nay sayers...in todays world it seems someone is always to blame....and todays event organisers are wrongly being blamed for the mistakes or in-experience of participants who should be themselves to blame.

I would like to see a friendly police presence at such events, I would be happy to see a less police friendly approach to irresponsible behavior on such events, but not paint the entire event with the same brush as the irresponsible few.

I would not like to see these events rigidly structured with set points at set times and compulsary stops for so long....that would take most of the fun out of it for me.

Any way enough dribbling for one night.

[nzspokes]

25 years back there were no Police riders. It was MoT or nobody. I was one of the nobody's back then, being a snake in Orkers. Rode on a couple of the local rides back then, like the Sherrif riding shotgun.

We are fully behind the endurance rides in our village. We met the orgy-niser in rhe OP with a view to understanding the event better, so we can allay any fears in our company re runnin it. Luckily it looks like it might even be better than before, and potentially safer. How can that be bad? Interesting turns being talked about, the orgy guy is a real lateral thinker.

No wish to control anything other than the over reaction one of our managers had last year.

Donuts.

That brings back a memory of riding a local hill road on my XL185s of doom. A MOT bike cop came up next to and yelled at me to F@%k off home on that piece of shit. Looking back and to be fair, it was a piece of shit.

I guess the car number plate and old paper plate for a headlight gave it away.

Good times.

[Jantar]

Whoops, come in a bit late...serves me right for not paying attention...Guess the "Friday meeting" with the event organiser is over by now......

I think I might have an inkling about how you found this thread Paul.

Initially I had hoped that the meeting between the organiser and the Popo would produce a good result, now I believe the result is detrimental to the entire event.

[LBD]

I think I might have an inkling about how you found this thread Paul.

Initially I had hoped that the meeting between the organiser and the Popo would produce a good result, now I believe the result is detrimental to the entire event.

Yup you are on to it....Yes it does seem that way...buggar I really enjoyed last year!...Did you see my comment about the lot with the lowest score? You know, -300 for every 100 over....lowest score wins, bit like golf....

[Gremlin]

7) ...I wonder how that sort of "training" affects our ability to stay focused for long hours in the saddle? I cannot comment on the benifit of training rides as it is 4 months at least between rides for me.
...
I fully appreciate the reasons the organisers are seeking to apease the nay sayers...in todays world it seems someone is always to blame....and todays event organisers are wrongly being blamed for the mistakes or in-experience of participants who should be themselves to blame.

re 7) I believe training rides are absolutely valuable. For those considering trying long distance riding, I liken it to a marathon. You build up to it, and have to be fit to do it. Riding is a different fitness, but a fitness nonetheless. When you've done the training, then the event itself is easier. Of course there is also general fitness. I know from my own experience and testing that a lot of prep for one Grand Challenge made it extremely easy (weather is obviously a factor - and a training ride was actually harder). Conversely, a lack of training rides made it harder.

Initially I had hoped that the meeting between the organiser and the Popo would produce a good result, now I believe the result is detrimental to the entire event.

I honestly believe the result is middle of the road. It could easily have been worse or better. The organisers can come under a lot of heat if things go wrong... just look at the multisport or triathlon event a couple of years ago? Organisers charged I think? Even if innocent, the stress is enough to make them go "Fuck it, it ain't worth it".

The event looks to be on and will continue to evolve, like it has every year. Kudos to all organisers of all events to keep on putting them on.

[LBD]

re 7) I believe training rides are absolutely valuable. For those considering trying long distance riding, I liken it to a marathon. You build up to it, and have to be fit to do it. Riding is a different fitness, but a fitness nonetheless. When you've done the training, then the event itself is easier. Of course there is also general fitness. I know from my own experience and testing that a lot of prep for one Grand Challenge made it extremely easy (weather is obviously a factor - and a training ride was actually harder). Conversely, a lack of training rides made it harder.

I am not particularly tough or fit or young and I carry a reasonable girth...But have ridden 3 TTs, 2 GCs and the 10K super tour and all without any training and hopping on the bike after a minimum of 4 months since the last ride, so I tend to think state of mind, and equipment set up, is way more important than training and fitness for endurance rides.

However if you are inexperienced at endurance rides then yes, some long distance practice is in order

[eldog]

re 7) I believe training rides are absolutely valuable. For those considering trying long distance riding, I liken it to a marathon. You build up to it, and have to be fit to do it. Riding is a different fitness, but a fitness nonetheless. When you've done the training, then the event itself is easier. Of course there is also general fitness. I know from my own experience and testing that a lot of prep for one Grand Challenge made it extremely easy (weather is obviously a factor - and a training ride was actually harder). Conversely, a lack of training rides made it harder..

great thread, just wondered about the 'buildup training' I know it will be different for each individual.
Sorting out gear and bike currently, still have got to sort out some items.
Re the riding, Still in the thinking stage.....

any suggestions