Volkswagen running for cover

[Stylo]

So after some weeks of this now has anybody pointed a finger at the emission standards that have to be met? They still pump out shit - they are just using precious metals to absorb it, run very lean engines and come up with annoying electronic shit like cutting the engine when at lights. Do we sleep better at night knowing this?

I'm internet surfing for some cans for the Ducati - do I care if they don't have a cat converter in them? Nah. I was talking to a NZ supplier of one brand - he can get cat ones - but stated all he sells in NZ are non cats........

Think they've always pumped out shit. This issue is about intentional deception.

And they've admitted it.

This is the gift that keeps on giving, be interesting to see the concessions they make in terms of brand deletion. SEAT might me having some sleepless nights. Ducati might be too.

Have sympathy for all the workers involved

[merv]

I've just got back from 2 weeks in England and Wales and this scandal was in the news just about very day. What's being spoken about is not just what Volkswagen did but how Europe as a whole has followed a bad strategy in pinning its hopes on clean diesels to lower emissions in the cities. The manufacturers said they were clean but in England they've been doing real world roadside tests and all the brands, BMW and Merc included, exceed the emissions standards by 5 times or more and what they are seeing is the cities getting more and more dirty smog filled air. Paris was said to be one of the worst now and all English cities were said to be getting worse. The diesels just pump soot. Follow any Audi diesel on the motorways as an example and when the driver hits the throttle to accelerate, out comes the huge cloud of black stuff. The worst car I followed was a Ford diesel. They said the cars are nowhere near as clean as trucks and buses which are big enough to have the gear fitted (whatever it is) to keep the emissions down.

So while compared to say an old petrol engine the diesels may be generating less CO and CO2 (the CO2 they blame for greenhouse effect) they do produce more NOx and plenty of soot, which is harder on humans immediately than the greenhouse effect is.

The Yanks had bad pollution issues in the 70's with petrol engines that they fixed it with emission rules, so along come catalytic converters and the like and Toyota making the Prius as examples. I first went to Los Angeles in 1980 and you couldn't see as far as the second set of traffic lights, whereas now the skies are quite clear most of the time. The CARB rules have been getting more stringent and hence the diesel cars just aren't as popular there.

Now until this scandal blew up I quite liked the diesels because they are grunty and economical. The rental car we just had was a Volvo V40 D4 Crosscountry 2 litre diesel with 8 speed auto. Now peak power on that is 140kw, but because of the torque it goes like a petrol engine with way more power, and it would do more than 1,100km on a tank of fuel of only 62 litres.

The question is can they clean the diesel up, or are petrol hybrids, fuel cells or electrics the future. I saw many Mercs over there that were Bluetec Hybrids - they are diesel with hybrid aren't they? So can they be as clean as the standards require?

All food for thought. I think the real issues is they caught Volkswagen lying, but the problem is are any of the manufacturers of diesels being honest because if I believe the Poms in the news they said the roadside testing says no, none of them meet the standard.

[Stylo]

Some of the older Jap diesels I see are poking out plenty of soot too.

Be interesting to see how this evolves, lot of politics involved too, guess that's how it started.

VW dealerships must be finding it a bit tough, no sympathy from me.

[Stylo]

Seems that Audi is in the mix too now. Petrol included.

Hope you haven't bought one recently ...

This is a blinder

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-34712435

[AllanB]

It's all arse.

Line up every new car in a test and see how they really go.

Fucking Americans who pump out too much global shit telling the world how to run their cars.

Arses.

[sidecar bob]

Seems that Audi is in the mix too now. Petrol included.

Hope you haven't bought one recently ...

Sure have. And I couldn't give a shit, it's a very fine wee car.

[Stylo]

11 million cars and forecast 7.3 billion reparation costs,

Could now be as much as 87 billion, I think Volkswagen has a wee problem on it's hands


http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/10/auto...wners-buyback/

[Bass]

The worst car I followed was a Ford diesel. They said the cars are nowhere near as clean as trucks and buses which are big enough to have the gear fitted (whatever it is) to keep the emissions down.
.

Someone may already have explained this. If so, tell me and I'll delete this post.

The VW's CAN meet the standards. However, it requires a high rate of exhaust gas recycle to do so and this cuts the power output significantly.
They can't meet the standards AND generate claimed power simultaneously, so the car is set up to use its normal on-board sensors to detect when it's on a rolling road test rig and to turn on the full exhaust gas recycle when this is detected.

[Stylo]

Someone may already have explained this. If so, tell me and I'll delete this post.

The VW's CAN meet the standards. However, it requires a high rate of exhaust gas recycle to do so and this cuts the power output significantly.
They can't meet the standards AND generate claimed power simultaneously, so the car is set up to use its normal on-board sensors to detect when it's on a rolling road test rig and to turn on the full exhaust gas recycle when this is detected.

Deep breath, glass of water and an early night for you mate !

You'll feel much better in the morning, put your 'leccy blanket on first aye ?

Those super-sized caps instantly revealed your integrity status

[AllanB]

I may purchase shares in VW. Be a rich bastard when they bounce back.

[Tazz]

Someone may already have explained this. If so, tell me and I'll delete this post.

The VW's CAN meet the standards. However, it requires a high rate of exhaust gas recycle to do so and this cuts the power output significantly.
They can't meet the standards AND generate claimed power simultaneously, so the car is set up to use its normal on-board sensors to detect when it's on a rolling road test rig and to turn on the full exhaust gas recycle when this is detected.

I see where you're coming from in a way. Manufacturers have lied/embellished about safety features, HP and economy figures etc for years. It is just a bit more than putting optimistic numbers on paper and less socially accepted this time around I guess?

At the end of the day though, if it cannot meet it's advertised/stated emissions figures in real world conditions then those figures are simply incorrect.

Yota and Hyundai making diesel fuel pumps that shit themselves from the quality of fuel actually available, rather than the pristine shit they use in their test labs, is near as bad as this kurfuffle imo.

[AllanB]

Add motorcycle weights - dry, wet? added up from a computer working with a cad predicted weight? WTF really knows.

HP figures taken from the crank?

The last thing I really want though is some wanky organisation as a overseer dictating to all.

[AllanB]

Ford had a vehicle some years back running new on defective tyres that blew out ......

The difference is they recalled them. No cheating.


Suzuki denied denied and denied that the pistons in one of the Bandit years were not as per spec and smoked like a coal train. Turned out the oil ring holes were too large in the pistons. When pushed about oil consumption Suzuki reverted back to some stupid old well out of date 1950 acceptable industry standard for oil consumption. I understand Triumph have been guilty of hiding behind the same crap as well.

[neels]

I may purchase shares in VW. Be a rich bastard when they bounce back.

Thinking the same thing myself....

Anyway, it's all bollocks.

Manufacturers have been coming up with bullshit ways to create the right stats for vehicles for ages, the worst one I experienced was an Opel piece of shit that turned itself off at the traffic lights, I can only assume in a desperate attempt to meet the quoted mpg figure in the sales brochure.

All the VW people did was not put in a stupid additive tank to meet the requirements of protectionist bullshit anti diesel regulation in the good old USA, stick a 5 litre petrol v8 with a catalytic converter in there and you're all good. It's not about saving the enviroment, it's about saving jobs for americans in dinosaur industries.

[Bass]

Those super-sized caps instantly revealed your integrity status

Chuckle.

It reveals more about my lack of skill in running the site options as I don't care much about this one way or the other.

Was just trying to give some detail as to what VW had actually done, somewhat clumsily as it turns out.

Intriguing what can be read into a bit of punctuation - thanks for that.